HUnters and thier position

eventin_papa · 03-29-2005, 11:54 PM

OK first off..i am not tryingto start a fight. please keep thois civil.

I know that many disciplines has good and bad riders. They all have different postions ect. I have been watching some hunter jumper shows and i have noticed the following things.....do you think they are good or bad and also if they are pretty common in the hunter world

toes pointed out
throwing themselves forward
elbows basically resting on the horses neck
leg sli[[ed back

and i know that all of you hunters out there probably work just as hard as everyone else...remember i am not trying to insult you i am trying to get people's opinion on how hunter ride (ing general)

so just feel free to post and say your opinion ( i want this to be civilized so go easy)

sian · 03-30-2005, 02:58 AM

like you said you get good and bad!! its the same in sj, xc etc you will always have people with there toes out *looks guilty* etc! lol..... you always get people who think they are really gd when they arent and vice versa!

Libby_Lover · 03-30-2005, 04:09 AM

Toes pointed out - Bad IMO
throwing themselves forward - Not good either
elbows basically resting on the horses neck - My instructer tells us to push on the horses neck, but never just rest it there. It's not that bad i guess
Leg slipped back - I don't really care for this.

lms · 03-30-2005, 04:34 AM

All signs of "still-learning" riders.

Paintlover · 03-30-2005, 05:25 AM

That is why photographers take 3/4 views, not as many flaws show up.

This is what happens when instructors push their students to higher levels on horses that are too good for those riders.

AmyS2429 · 03-30-2005, 06:16 AM

I've noticed some of these things too. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by resting elbows on the neck...haven't seen that one and couldn't tell from the pic. Unfortunately I think a lot of this comes from uneducated trainers. I've ridden under some very good trainers and some not so good trainers. Some of the not so good ones let things slip that should really have been fixed (pointing my toes out, dropping my shoulder, etc) I know a lot of kids that start out with one trainer and stay with them forever. I think it's good to have a variety because if you're trainer is missing something then you're at a disadvantage. Another thing I've noticed is that often riders in hunter classes feel that their position isn't as important because it is being judged on the horse. I've heard many riders say, "oh it doesn't matter what I look like as long as he's jumping well."

hossluva · 03-30-2005, 06:28 AM

OK I am a hunter/jumper so I think I can help.

Toes pointed out - yes you do. When you are hunting you want for main angles, Elbows, waist, knees, and ankles. When you turn you toes out it allows you to put you heel down farther.

Elbows resting on horses neck - no, this is something that can/should be taken care of by lots of practice on the flat. It probably is a combination of the riders hands to close together which makes their shoulders kind of slump down and makes their elbows appear more "sticky outy", if that makes sense.

Throwing forward - Not sure what you meen by this, but they may sit in 2-point position before the jumps if the horse is slow and they need more speed. As far as getting ahead, NO. You just let the horse jump like other disaplines.

Legs slid back - NO!!!! You want your leg underneath your body. You want your weight evenly distributed between your knees, lower leg, and heel over jumps. Usually when your legs slides back you are gripping to much with your knees and there isn't enough weight in your heels to keep your leg in proper postions.

Hope I helped, if you don't understand something I said I can try to clarify better.

hossluva · 03-30-2005, 06:32 AM

Another thing I've noticed is that often riders in hunter classes feel that their position isn't as important because it is being judged on the horse. I've heard many riders say, "oh it doesn't matter what I look like as long as he's jumping well."

I ride IEA (interscholastic Equestrian Assoc.) where you go to shows and that place that is hosting the shows provides the horses and you draw one. That way it is totally being judged on the rider and we consentrate on our position more then our horse unless it is having problems. The people with the better draw still have an advantage, though...

Jumpers just want to get around the course as fast as they can, they are the ones that don't really care about looks to much.

Celeste · 03-30-2005, 07:35 AM

when i was learning to jump, she had us go into a trot on the flat, and stand up in 2-point position and just go around on the flat like that so we knew how to keep our balance. you should not be resting any part of yourself on the horse, you have to be balanced standing in the stirrups. we were told that when the horse prepared to jump, we were supposed to raise our hands so the horse could have it's head to just go over the jump and to grab a little bit of main half way up the neck as we went over the jump, then we continued in 2-point for several strides after the jump, as well as before the jump. i never got farther than that though.

GeM · 03-30-2005, 08:33 AM

I agree for the mostpart of what many of you say. There are many trainers who do tend to "move" around over the jumps, but they are able to pull of a look that the judges love. They basically show the horse off, which makes the horse win.
Remember it's not equitation, and because there is not a professional equitation class, it does not matter to them. If they can make the horse they are showing look excellent, they could probably care less about how they look. COTH had an article about current positions, and how they have changed in the past decades. I found the article very interesting. The positions may not be very pretty, but I tend to look at the horse more, just as the judge would judging the class.
Regardless of the discipline, all riders have their faults. Eventing,reining,cutting etc.
Some of my pictures do fit into the hunter flaw catagory, but that is why we have lessons, to improve upon.
Papa, I know you are an eventer, but in your avatar, you are doing atleast three of the "hunter flaws". Everyone does them...not just hunters.

03-29-2005, 11:54 PM	#1
eventin_papa Senior Member+ Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: 7th stall down, california Posts: 2,623 Images: 129 Blog Entries: 4	HUnters and thier position OK first off..i am not tryingto start a fight. please keep thois civil. I know that many disciplines has good and bad riders. They all have different postions ect. I have been watching some hunter jumper shows and i have noticed the following things.....do you think they are good or bad and also if they are pretty common in the hunter world toes pointed out throwing themselves forward elbows basically resting on the horses neck leg sli[[ed back and i know that all of you hunters out there probably work just as hard as everyone else...remember i am not trying to insult you i am trying to get people's opinion on how hunter ride (ing general) so just feel free to post and say your opinion ( i want this to be civilized so go easy) __________________ Fen Cera "Ash" THF Countdown Days until Next Show :17 Last edited by eventin_papa; 03-30-2005 at 12:04 AM.

03-30-2005, 06:16 AM	#6
AmyS2429 Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 291	I've noticed some of these things too. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by resting elbows on the neck...haven't seen that one and couldn't tell from the pic. Unfortunately I think a lot of this comes from uneducated trainers. I've ridden under some very good trainers and some not so good trainers. Some of the not so good ones let things slip that should really have been fixed (pointing my toes out, dropping my shoulder, etc) I know a lot of kids that start out with one trainer and stay with them forever. I think it's good to have a variety because if you're trainer is missing something then you're at a disadvantage. Another thing I've noticed is that often riders in hunter classes feel that their position isn't as important because it is being judged on the horse. I've heard many riders say, "oh it doesn't matter what I look like as long as he's jumping well." __________________ ~Amy~

03-30-2005, 07:35 AM	#9
Celeste Senior Member+ Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Washington Posts: 481 Images: 13	when i was learning to jump, she had us go into a trot on the flat, and stand up in 2-point position and just go around on the flat like that so we knew how to keep our balance. you should not be resting any part of yourself on the horse, you have to be balanced standing in the stirrups. we were told that when the horse prepared to jump, we were supposed to raise our hands so the horse could have it's head to just go over the jump and to grab a little bit of main half way up the neck as we went over the jump, then we continued in 2-point for several strides after the jump, as well as before the jump. i never got farther than that though. __________________ Brilliant? A word describing something dumb You create to desecrate the villain I've become A prophet, not to be made but heard Speaks in tongues and sarcasm To me it's plain, to you absurd

03-30-2005, 08:33 AM	#10
GeM Senior Member+ Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,019 Images: 53	I agree for the mostpart of what many of you say. There are many trainers who do tend to "move" around over the jumps, but they are able to pull of a look that the judges love. They basically show the horse off, which makes the horse win. Remember it's not equitation, and because there is not a professional equitation class, it does not matter to them. If they can make the horse they are showing look excellent, they could probably care less about how they look. COTH had an article about current positions, and how they have changed in the past decades. I found the article very interesting. The positions may not be very pretty, but I tend to look at the horse more, just as the judge would judging the class. Regardless of the discipline, all riders have their faults. Eventing,reining,cutting etc. Some of my pictures do fit into the hunter flaw catagory, but that is why we have lessons, to improve upon. Papa, I know you are an eventer, but in your avatar, you are doing atleast three of the "hunter flaws". Everyone does them...not just hunters. __________________ You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

03-30-2005, 02:58 AM	#2
sian Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: insane asylum, England.... Posts: 2,148 Images: 38	like you said you get good and bad!! its the same in sj, xc etc you will always have people with there toes out looks guilty etc! lol..... you always get people who think they are really gd when they arent and vice versa!

03-30-2005, 04:09 AM	#3
Libby_Lover Full Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Washington, Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 99 Images: 2	Toes pointed out - Bad IMO throwing themselves forward - Not good either elbows basically resting on the horses neck - My instructer tells us to push on the horses neck, but never just rest it there. It's not that bad i guess Leg slipped back - I don't really care for this.

03-30-2005, 04:34 AM	#4
lms Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 281	All signs of "still-learning" riders.

03-30-2005, 05:25 AM	#5
Paintlover Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,575	That is why photographers take 3/4 views, not as many flaws show up. This is what happens when instructors push their students to higher levels on horses that are too good for those riders.

03-30-2005, 06:28 AM	#7
hossluva Senior Member+ Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,950 Images: 26 Blog Entries: 1	OK I am a hunter/jumper so I think I can help. Toes pointed out - yes you do. When you are hunting you want for main angles, Elbows, waist, knees, and ankles. When you turn you toes out it allows you to put you heel down farther. Elbows resting on horses neck - no, this is something that can/should be taken care of by lots of practice on the flat. It probably is a combination of the riders hands to close together which makes their shoulders kind of slump down and makes their elbows appear more "sticky outy", if that makes sense. Throwing forward - Not sure what you meen by this, but they may sit in 2-point position before the jumps if the horse is slow and they need more speed. As far as getting ahead, NO. You just let the horse jump like other disaplines. Legs slid back - NO!!!! You want your leg underneath your body. You want your weight evenly distributed between your knees, lower leg, and heel over jumps. Usually when your legs slides back you are gripping to much with your knees and there isn't enough weight in your heels to keep your leg in proper postions. Hope I helped, if you don't understand something I said I can try to clarify better.

03-30-2005, 06:32 AM	#8
hossluva Senior Member+ Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,950 Images: 26 Blog Entries: 1	Another thing I've noticed is that often riders in hunter classes feel that their position isn't as important because it is being judged on the horse. I've heard many riders say, "oh it doesn't matter what I look like as long as he's jumping well." I ride IEA (interscholastic Equestrian Assoc.) where you go to shows and that place that is hosting the shows provides the horses and you draw one. That way it is totally being judged on the rider and we consentrate on our position more then our horse unless it is having problems. The people with the better draw still have an advantage, though... Jumpers just want to get around the course as fast as they can, they are the ones that don't really care about looks to much.