[irideazip]

Fancy has always been a bit on the lazy side...but she is slowly becoming more and more reluctant to move out. If i do some extended jogging with her, she is better...it is almost like we have to go fast for a bit to "wake her up" before we can do much else. I have tried pushing her into a faster lope and that just makes me have to work 10X harder because she doesn't want to.

It is because for so long now it has been...slow down, slow down, slow down? Or is there some exercises we can do to get her to really WANT to move forward so we can really get some work done.

Any suggestions are appreciated

[Lopinslow]

LOTS AND LOTS of leg! even when going slow, push her hard with your legs. if she's that lazy you may need to use spurs if you are not already. roll that spur up her sides. my WP gelding is very lazy as well, and i actually roll that outside spur in the timing with his stride, and if i need a little lift in the front, i'll add a little squeeze with the inside leg.

get off the rail an into the middle of the arena, do lots of lateral work. sidepassing, two tracking, moving hips and shoulders, etc.

when you are loping and she looses that impulsion, stop her, using the same leg, push those hips around a few times the same direction you were loping, then lope off again. Making her step up and around in the back helps her use herself better.
just as pivots/indirect turns helps them loosen and lift their shoulders in the front ( if you need more lift and reach in front )

counter cantering will also help get her to drive from behind.

[Chester]

Cattle prod????































Sorry, I had to do it.

[irideazip]

you are too much, SL

Thanks for the advice, lopinslow. I do ride with spurs, I have the longer equitation spurs so I can get better reach under her rib cage. I try and do a lot of work in the center of the ring...but not too much with moving her hips arouns...she REALLY doesn't like it. I am glad you mentioned rolling the spur with the strides... I was doing some of that last night at the jog to get her to flex vertically a bit better...I am also having a bit of an issue with flexion...i think we are going to go back to her shank bit for a day or 2...remind her that she needs to pay attention...i usually ridein a plain snaffle unless it is a show because she is 14 and I can't show in a snaffle LOL

Thanks for the ideas! I WILL be trying some tomorrow...not the cattle prod, though LMAO

[Lopinslow]

Thanks for the advice, lopinslow. I do ride with spurs, I have the longer equitation spurs so I can get better reach under her rib cage. I try and do a lot of work in the center of the ring...but not too much with moving her hips arouns...she REALLY doesn't like it. I am glad you mentioned rolling the spur with the strides... I was doing some of that last night at the jog to get her to flex vertically a bit better...I am also having a bit of an issue with flexion...i think we are going to go back to her shank bit for a day or 2...remind her that she needs to pay attention...i usually ridein a plain snaffle unless it is a show because she is 14 and I can't show in a snaffle LOL

Thanks for the ideas! I WILL be trying some tomorrow...not the cattle prod, though LMAO[/quote]

i always say " too bad, so sad"... lol
i guess i'm awful, when they don't like something that they should be doing frequently, i do it even more until they get over it... lol ( as long as there is not a pain issue, etc )

I would play around with some bits. I have a lot of them, and am always varying what i use.

[horseguy]

Impulsion begins with balance, and it is power from the horse’s hind. Speed, on the other hand, is more pulling from the forehand, the shoulders. Knowing the difference and feeing it is essential. In nature horses are 60% on the forehand, 40% on the hind. They are a flight animal, and speed is important in flight from a predator, thus the natural forehand balance. When we train horses for riding we strive for a 50% fore and 50% hind balance. In dressage we develop 60% fore and 40% hind, or lightness on the fore so as to produce agility.

Some might say impulsion is the highest priority in riding and jumping. I would quickly point out that a horse brought to a jump in balance has impulsion. I say this because if a horse is balanced 50% / 50%, fore/hind, it can easily be more agile, jump, bend, turn, and so on because the hind is involved by virtue of this balance. Therefore it is generally safe to say that a balanced horse has impulsion. Hind involvement equals some degree of impulsion. At some point hind involvement becomes engagement, and then we can begin to use the "high school" definition of impulsion.

I think that the wider contemporary interest in dressage principles has people today thinking more in terms of impulsion, which is great. I just think that we need a deeper dialogue now about the field applications of dressage principles like impulsion. The high school dressage principles do not translate directly in to the field, but it is possible to interpret them and apply them in the field environment.

The distinction between translate and interpret is subtle but important when it comes to concepts like impulsion. Some dressage riders refuse to attempt a broader interpretation for field work, which frustrates field riders like foxhunters. Some field riders try and fail to translate, which frustrates dressage riders. Confusion develops. We need to keep it simple. Impulsion is part of dressage and of field riding. Balance in dressage riding is very different than it is in the field. As a result, we will inevitably use the word impulsion differently in dressage and in field riding, although the concepts are very similar.

[IIIBarsV]

I would actually back off her. If you're already using spurs, she may just be getting sick of being constantly poked. I don't doubt she may be a lazy sort of mare, but you have to remember to not constantly pick at her. When she does move, you have to be able to back off and quit doing what you're doing.

Spurs should not be for "forward". They ought to be used for direction, lift, or high collection movements. Your upper leg and calves should be what is asking her for "forward". If this is not the case, then somebody skipped a bunch of training on this mare.

What you need is a way to reinforce "Forward, now!" without making your legs heavier. Traditionally in Dressage, a whip is used for this purpose. I ride western pleasure, barrel race, train, english... and this is what I use a dressage whip for- so my legs stay soft, and I never have to put a spur on a horse at all. (I am anti-spur).

For example, I have a 3 yr old Quarter Pony who could rival some of the AQHA horses if he were bigger and an AQHA. lol He's pretty dopey, slow, low-headed, great mover, super quiet. I just started him officially under saddle three days ago. (He's had plenty of ground work and work on the lungeline last year). The first two days I rode with my dressage whip, because he understands that means forward. By the second ride I barely touched it, and today I didn't bother riding with it at all. The pony now jogs/trots off my bare leg immediately, was loping off and picking up his lope lead off my leg. I also use my voice cues (after all it's only day three!), but to keep him loping today, all I had to do was put my calf back on him and he wouldn't even break stride. He also was steering around off calf pressure better than some of my older horses that are green or in re-training.

The trick here is "pressure, and release". This means you apply pressure, but as soon as you get the desired result, you stop all action, praise the horse, and let the horse work without you continuing to bug them. This is how they learn, and it keeps the confusion, frustration, and lazyness from ever causing a problem. Even the laziest horse in the world will learn to become hot off your bare legs if they know that when they give to the pressure/do what you're asking, you stop annoying them.

Sure lazy horses are born that way. But they learn to stay that way because how they're trained and ridden- making it totally the rider's fault for the laziness on any horse who's beyond their first two weeks of riding. What these lazy horses really want is to be left alone- so you have to promise them that you'll leave them alone and not work them to death when they do move. Motivate them by backing off when you get what you want.

The down side to this is that it will take time and a heck of a lot of patience. But it's better than simply wailing on them, and both you and your mare will be happier and more pleasant in the long run. Obviously a tail-swishing, ear-pinning, balking horse doesn't really catch the judge's eye- unless they aren't moving and someone else crashes into them.

[irideazip]

lopinslow: I will make an effort to move her hips more despite her dislike...even my trainer has remarked she is (was) getting better with the yeilding when we were constantly working on it bit by bit

horseguy: i hate to say it, but you got me a bit confused! LOL...maybe I sould have said "I would like more forward movement from my horse...not speed, just the drive to move forward more" Maybe I really should trailer her down to Carlisle to visit you...you are, after all, only a few minutes from my in-laws

IIIBarsV: Thanks for teh advice! I really do try and use the calf, but usually resort to the spur for a change of gait or forward motion. In your opinion, do you think if i work more on using my calf to change gaits rather than the spur, she may be happier to move out? I know I didn't mention it, but she is a reg. QH and stands 14.1 5/8 HH...similar to your Quarter Pony in training now

She is exceedingly well broke and I am wondering if her 9 years of training/showing might be catching up to her? We try and trail ride for fun when we can and even run a barrel here and there so she can "blow out her system" as I call it, and even tackle some cross rails and simple jumps to freshen her mind...we will even take things outside the ring to a nice grassy patch in the lawn where it is somewhat flat and I work her there without fences...does any of this shed any light, or does it just make me look like a bad mommy

[horseguy]

Originally Posted by irideazip

horseguy: i hate to say it, but you got me a bit confused! LOL...maybe I sould have said "I would like more forward movement from my horse...not speed, just the drive to move forward more" Maybe I really should trailer her down to Carlisle to visit you...you are, after all, only a few minutes from my in-laws

Impulsion is basically power. Increased tempo may be more what you are looking for, but more tempo without sufficient impulsion can look and feel pretty forced or sometimes lethargic. It is almost never one thing with a horse. Words like “cadence” are inclusive of several aspects of a horse’s movement in a gait, but because there are so many elements, including rhythm, tempo, impulsion, balance, and animation, simple statements like “I need more impulsion” usually bring up more questions than answers.

I will be giving some one day clinics here in Carlisle this summer, and I travel too. In clinics I try to help riders feel all these elements of the gaits in their horse. Every horse is different and a rider should be able to feel which elements are working well and which are not. Every horse has strong and weak points in their movement. The trick is to improve the weaker points without sacrificing the stronger points.

[MissCriss]

I've only read a couple posts and I agree that balance is the key to more impulsion. Do some exercises to get your horse more on his hind end so that he is more encouraged to push from behind. That way "forward" won't be a negative experience for him when he DOES go faster and pummels onto his forehand, down down down, and eventually loses his balance.

However, remember that impulsion/energy/forward/power does not necessarily mean faster. ENERGY is what you want, because ALL horses can go fast when they need to, as they are flight animals. Harnessing that energy and directing it to the work at hand is the hard part that can take some time and effort. When you harness energy, you harness the control of tempo, and tempo is whether you go fast or slow.

Do exercises to strengthen his back so that he is better able to transfer more energy and weight to his hind end. Buy a dressage book and do some of the exercises there. Do lots of changing rein or serpentines to keep him moving and thinking. He won't have time to think about slowing down. For improving forwardness, don't worry TOO much about being *perfectly* on the bit. Once he responds, he can have his head. But SOME effort put on getting him on the bit is necessary for developing balance.

Also, maybe take a look at what you are feeding him. I wouldn't suggest sweet feed, but maybe make sure he is on an appropriate vit/min supplement and that he has some essential fatty acids in his diet.

Seems like you are doing a great job of giving him lots of new sights to see and things to do, so you're being a good mommy . Just make sure all the tack is properly fitted. Make sure you are loose and supple in your body so that you don't hinder his movements. If YOU'RE staring to get tired or stiff, a lazy horse will most definitely sense it and take advantage of it. Sometimes we can't tell at all that our bodies are interfering with the free movement of the horse, so have someone on the ground evaluate it.

Instead of just kicking and pushing and pushing, I say strive for sensitivity and responsiveness. All horses are sensitive. All of them. Just some choose to respond to it better than others .

If you push and push, he will just ignore you and become dull to the aids. You can bang on his sides all day and his full around 1000 odd pounds will probably only find it an annoyance. Since he's used to being lazy, have a dressage whip with you, and ask for the appropriate gait, preferably from walk to trot.

I would only use spurs for moving the horse's body or asking for collected movements. Spurs come in where your calf is too broad and general for a particular movement. Spurs come in to execute more delicately and specifically different movements that are not of "the norm" (walk, trot, canter, for example). The FEEL of the spur, and not the sting of the spur is the purpose when training, and eventually, when our horses are exceptionally well trained, they can learn to distinguish what is asked of them with mere shifts in our weight.

If you ask fairly gently and he doesn't respond, take that whip and let him know exactly what you want of him. One, fairly strong tap, and immediately. And if he doesn't do it, get off of him right away, and ask him in hand.

You must teach him that when you ask for something, he MUST respond. Then once he gives you the right response, you can back off and give him his space. Remember that horses work off a pressure and release system.

He CANNOT "pony ride" you around the arena like HE'S in charge. This is just a training issue where his initial teachings were not correct in certain aspects, since it does show that since he's a quiet horse, he was well trained overall. This is also partially a respect issue. Then, as he becomes more responsive, REWARD him. And if he does it enough times, end the ride short or go on a fun hike to take a break from work. That way he'll know that when he's good, it'll benefit him as well.