[pocahontas]

Originally Posted by Sandra-A1

Horse owners are about to be in one heck of a situation if this Bill makes it thru! Many will no longer be able to show or enjoy their horses like they do now...some will not even be able to own them. As time passes there will be more and more restrictions placed on horse ownership...then before long there will be even fewer owners until there are none!

Sandra

Just want to make this clear right away..this is a true question with nothing else attached.

I don't understand why horse owners will be in a situation if the bill passes?
Or show or enjoy horses? And more restrictions on horses?

I am asking, cause I don't see a connection to closing the slaughter industry down to what you said.

What your saying may have value. Will you explain for me. Thanks

[Buckshot]

Well, it sounds good, I know slaughter sounds horrible, but it really isn't...at least in my opinion. I would like to know what is going to happen to all the horses that aren't going to slaughterhouses anymore. There will probably be too many, and people that shouldn't be having horses may end up having horses. Also, I know I will get bashed for this, but a lot of horses that go to slaughter houses need a lot of work, and your average cowboying technique isn't going to work. You will need a professional trainer, which will cost MONEY. A lot of people getting these horses probably will not have an abundance of money. That is my opinionated opinion.

[pocahontas]

Originally Posted by Buckshot

Well, it sounds good, I know slaughter sounds horrible, but it really isn't...at least in my opinion. I would like to know what is going to happen to all the horses that aren't going to slaughterhouses anymore.

Buckshot

Look at post #47
House of Rep to Vote on Permanent End to Horse Slaughter

Not saying this is in stone, but people have thought of this question, and are trying to figure things out. Nothing full proof.

[Sandra-A1]

Originally Posted by pocahontas

Sandra

Just want to make this clear right away..this is a true question with nothing else attached.

I don't understand why horse owners will be in a situation if the bill passes?
Or show or enjoy horses? And more restrictions on horses?

I am asking, cause I don't see a connection to closing the slaughter industry down to what you said.

What your saying may have value. Will you explain for me. Thanks

You asked a logical question and let me see if I can provide a logical answer by asking you a few questions.......keeping in mind that my belief, and fears, are based on the "trickle-down effect."
By using your responses to my questions I think we can follow a logical progression everyone will see how the bill, via the trickle down effect, will cause problems for those who own horses.

First off let's start with horse slaughter for human consumption and assume the bill has just been passed.
So now the people who buy these horses to sell for slaughter keep buying them but haul them out of this country.
Now the creators and backers of this bill discover that horses are still being sold to people who simply ship them out of this country.
So now what can, or needs to, be done to prevent/stop them from doing that?

[pocahontas]

Originally Posted by Blistering Winds

human consumption and for other purposes will probably stop the ability of horse meat for zoos period.

Originally Posted by Top Dun

Yep and then
1. Zoos will be forced to find alternative feeds for their animals or go out of business altogether.
2. Zoos that do start feeding more chicken, beef and poultry will increase an already stretched demand for those meats and we WILL se an additional rise in the cost of those meats for human consumption.

Using guessing and probably as that is the way it is "period" only throws confusion and misleading info into the pot.



The key word is HUMAN consumption. The zoos will not be affected.



HR 507 was introduced on 02/25/05 and referred to the House Subcommittee on Commerce, Trade and Consumer Protection. The American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act (HR 503) would ban the slaughter of horses in the United States and their export for slaughter to foreign countries. Specifically, this bill would prohibit the transport, moving, delivering, receiving, possessing, purchasing, selling, or donation of any horse for the purpose of being slaughtered for human consumption. Senators Mary Landrieu and John Ensign introduced the Senate counterpart, S. 1915, which was introduced and referred to Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation on 10/25/05.

[Top Dun]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/comme...4728-2234r.htm
Quote:
Slaughter plants provide U.S. Department of Agriculture-inspected horse meat to zoo animals across our nation. If HR 503 passes, lions, tigers and other animals will lose this access to the only federally inspected source of special proteins their bodies need to mimic what they would eat in the wild.

Originally Posted by pocahontas

The key word is HUMAN consumption. The zoos will not be affected.

[pocahontas]

Originally Posted by Top Dun

http://www.washingtontimes.com/comme...4728-2234r.htm
Quote:
Slaughter plants provide U.S. Department of Agriculture-inspected horse meat to zoo animals across our nation. If HR 503 passes, lions, tigers and other animals will lose this access to the only federally inspected source of special proteins their bodies need to mimic what they would eat in the wild.

I can see where that would be cause for concern.

I wonder though, the journalist who wrote this article, where he got his facts. I question if it is speculation or facts on the animals at the zoo not getting horse meat in their diet.

I disagree on a point he wrote about euthanasia being to expensive of an option for horse owners. Euthanasia costs way less than the money spent on a saddle to put on your horses back that has served you

[Top Dun]

from the zoos themselves.

http://www.nagonline.net/current_issues.htm

Horsemeat Bill:

This is the response drafted by the NAG Steering Committee regarding the horsemeat issue. The important points being those that Barb Toddes (the current NAG chair) has emphasized:
(1) We all want high quality meat products for our collection animals; USDA inspection helps insure meat is wholesome.
(2) We do not want the number of suppliers of red meat products to be limited; competition helps control the price of the product and keeps quality high. In the US, horse is less expensive and in Europe beef is less expensive - either way we want to have the option to use both.
(3) Closure of USDA-inspected processing plants will not improve the plight of unwanted horses, likely it will make their final days much worse. USDA-inspected plants and Europe government licensed plants treat horses humanely.
If you have questions or comments email nag_issues.

NAG official Statement
From: AZA Nutrition Advisory Group Steering Committee
Date: 7 October 2002
Re: Horse Slaughter Bill(s)
Historically, horsemeat-based diets have been used for zoo carnivores in the United States due to leanness and economics compared to other red meats. The use of USDA-inspected horsemeat is accompanied by more stringent inspection and labeling criteria than applied to animal grade horsemeat, thus providing a higher quality, clean, and wholesome product for use in zoo carnivore diets. If the supply of human food quality raw horsemeat is restricted, it would have a great impact on zoo carnivore diets (these animals are fed raw diets). Meats processed for pet foods, which are heat-treated as part of the diet production process, are not suitable for zoo carnivore diets and are not considered an alternative source in the absence of human food quality meat. Closing of the horsemeat processing plants in Texas will limit options for horsemeat sources nationwide and potentially will adversely affect feeding programs in United States zoos. The zoo nutrition community supports multiple options for manufacture and distribution of quality diet products. In the past few years, competition among meat suppliers has increased the quality of products available to zoos while maintaining price control. AZA accredited zoos have worked closely with meat processors in defining nutrient, ingredient, and handling specifications for these products to insure production of the best possible diets. Importation of horsemeat from other locations (including those locales with similar inspection criteria) for the feeding of zoo carnivores will likely increase overall costs for zoos, and force the processing of horsemeat outside of the country. If cost is increased, smaller zoos may have a much more difficult task of finding a suitable replacement product for feeding their carnivores. USDA oversight of these processing plants helps not only insure a high quality product, but helps insure that the animals are treated humanely prior to slaughter. USDA-inspected horse processing plants handle horses humanely. Without such a regulated outlet, there is increased likelihood of horse abuse, since owners unable to dispose of unwanted horses may end up neglecting them. There is no indication that adoption of the 1998 California law banning the slaughter of horses in that state reduced the number of unwanted horses, rather simply may have changed the final destination of those animals to a facility out-of-state or to a foreign country.
Posted 10/7/02

http://www.citypaper.net/articles/2004-02-12/cb2.shtml

(Still, we did find out the zoo gets its meat from a national zoo food distribution store that provides horse meat -- yes, horse meat -- to Europe.)

http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/...er%20Para..htm
We feed "Dallas Crown" food. A mixture of ground horse
meat, minerals and vitamins.
16. The treats are chunks of horse meat

Originally Posted by pocahontas

I wonder though, the journalist who wrote this article, where he got his facts. I question if it is speculation or facts on the animals at the zoo not getting horse meat in their diet.

[Top Dun]

One zoo alone feeds 14 TONS of horse meat a year.
http://www.zoodegranby.com/en/conser...animaliers.htm

Zoos will be affected straight from an anti-slaughter site.

http://www.commonhorsesense.com/legi...erQuestion.htm

If the ruling stands, the law -- Chapter 149 of the Texas Agricultural Code -- would force closure of the Dallas Crown plant in Kaufman, southeast of Dallas, and the Fort Worth-based Beltex Corp. Both plants are Belgian-owned, and provide horsemeat for consumption to European and Asian markets, as well as to U.S. zoos for cheetahs and lions.

http://www.commonhorsesense.com/legislation/zoo.htm

"Closing of the horse-meat processing plants in Texas ... potentially will adversely affect feeding programs in United States zoos," the association's nutrition advisory group steering committee said in a statement. The lean and relatively cheap horse meat is given to big cats such as lions and other carnivores, from polar bears to the American bald eagle and the wild African dog.
The Fort Worth Zoo, for example, spends $45,000 a year on horse-meat-based diets and switching to beef would cost $18,000 more, spokeswoman Lyndsay Nantz said.

The Anti-slaughter people had this to say and I just have one huge quesiton about it.
What other source of horse meat will be available if ALL The US slaughter plants are shut down and just how safe WILL the meat be for the animals if we have to import it from Mexico? Mexico has already shown that they don't have either Sanitary practices OR humane methods and no inspections of the meat.

Chris Heyde, a Washington-based lobbyist for the Society for Animal Protective Legislation, rejected the committee's assertions, saying: "It's a fantasy of excuses to defend slaughter ... Shutting the slaughter down for human consumption has nothing to do with zoo food," Heyde said, insisting there would be other sources of horsemeat.

[Blistering Winds]

`(4) individuals selling horses or other equines at auctions are seldom aware that the animals may be bought for the purpose of being slaughtered for human consumption;

This is in the bill. I find this honestly, hilarious.

Why?

One of the girls I graduated with brought up a good fact when we were talking on the phone. She is on the "stop slaughter" side, but was bothered by this statement as well. (yes, I will even debate you on the phone. LMAO)


Ok, we all have drivers licenses..right? We know the basic laws and the laws of our state. However, if we drive in another state....it is our responsibility to understand and know their laws and are forced to follow them, and the "ignorance" plea does not hold water.

How then, can they reasonably state that fact. Do the writers of the bill feel horse owners are too dumb to be able to comprehend and haven't been around any form of horse media?




If this is a "fear" that horse owners are too dumb to know that auctions might contain a kill buyer and that slaughterhouses get their horse meat, many times, from auctions......then how are they able to function in life itself? Maybe, instead.....have a posting at auction houses that horses are sold to the highest bidder, that includes Horse Packing facilities.