[Jenje!]

Has everyone had their prozac today? Good. Hormone shots? Good. Now let's everybody CHILL OUT.

I didn't see anyone "bashing" anyone until people started singling out BW for snide remarks. Didn't everyone watch Bambi? Thumper's mom made a great statement in that movie that I try to remember when things get heated.

Slaughter is always going to be a controversial subject because so many hearts are tied up in it, and that's fine. People get emotional. Sometimes people get mean and start making unnecessary accusations. But this is a bit over the top. If you hate someone that much, there's a nifty little gadget on this forum... it's called the ignore button.

Let's hope the folks in the government who want to end slaughter are only doing it for the publicity. Maybe they'll pull the plug on the thing before it gets any bigger. Surely the people with the power have looked into the specifics of slaughter and can see how unrealistic and problematic it could be to try to stop it entirely.

[Blistering Winds]

People follow blindly the masses without realizing the costs.

Like Top Dun and Sandra see the "big picture" against the National ID issue....where some of us disagree....because of "RIGHTS" and "WELFARE" and Govt spending...

Others see different "big pictures" on the slaughter issue.

It disheartens me to see so many people being led by emotions through life and not making decisions for themselves based on ALL sides. Regardless of which side you finally choose.


I'm disheartened that people put dogs and cats before they put a human child. But I can't force them to change.

It disheartens me that people will spend a TON of money to organizations without looking at them, the statements and where their funds are spent.

We CAN stop slaughter. Unfortunately, the funds that can stop it are in the wrong hands. Being spent in the wrong way. By buying political gain. By spending it on paper that kills trees, by EVERYTHING BUT on an actual dog, cat, horse, pig, whatever the current "issue" is.

And people look to the big issue.....the bill will stop slaughter...but don't read the nice fine print (that actually is in big, bold letters right at the top)....that jeopardizes their whole future with their horse. Because of other lobbiests that are standing back, waiting for their chance to jump.

They jumped already in San Francisco where a dog has as much right to a lawyer as a child. Soon, even humane euthanasia will be gone. Since humans cannot be euthanized....our rights to be able to do that with an animal will soon be ripped from our hands as animals move up to equal status.


I don't fight the whole issue of Stop slaughter.

I fight how it is being done.

[Sandra-A1]

Well, said BW.....we are doomed as horse & pet owners unless we do to look at the big picture and consider every aspect.
Some people are doing this...
For example: http://www.birdmag.com/guardian.htm

That is why you sometimes hear me say that this forum is the perfect place to discuss the new laws people are trying to get passed. If there is a loophole in it or anything that can possibly come back to hurt us the members here can most likely find it.
Just because some of us will bring up the negative does not in any way mean that we do not want to see something good happen. We simply want a lasting result that will work and not cause or create problems...a solution that will do it's job and help for generations to come.
When it comes to this slaughter issue, so far, one has not been found. That is no reason to give up the search. Be glad that there are members like BW who will stand toe-to-toe with you and pick something apart. She does a great job of taking something apart and looking at it piece by piece. If it can be salvaged she will be the first to reassemble the idea back even better than it was. If it can't be salvaged she is willing to stand there and face it's supporters and tell them so.
That is how it should be. It is our responsibility as horsemen/women to protect our right to own, enjoy and yes even breed these amazing creatures. It is our job to see that we, as well as future generations, can enjoy horses just as those who have came before us and we do now. It is a responsibility none of us should take lightly...and that is why there are those of us on the forum who constantly say that you MUST consider the big picture...the legal precedents and that ever present trickle-down effect.
The law to ban horse slaughter in the USA as it stands right now is a bad law and should not be supported or passed....no matter how well intentioned it's creators are.

[Equine_Harmony]

Originally Posted by Blistering Winds

Yes, this is an election year in many areas. So is next year. Many reps are coming to close on their terms and are up for re-election.

This bill has been stalled in several committees, the committees where this bill BELONGS. However, because they cannot get it past with facts, they are now playing on emotions, the "good buddy" system, and on ignorant congress men and women and stuffed it here.

Committee/Subcommittee:Activity:House Energy and Commerce Referral, In Committee Subcommittee on Commerce, Trade and Consumer ProtectionReferral



This is not where this bill belongs. They are counting on ignorance and emotions to send this to the floor.

The committee that this is in is not even infront of agricultural people. It is in with furnature, automobiles, and trade embargos. NOT people who have ANY idea on how, what, and where a horse lives and needs.

They are No better than people who stuff riders on bills to get things passed.


There are already laws in place in the Horse Protection act....but they are using the "soring" issues to grab at straws and "RIDE" The slaughter end in.

"SHADY" business in my opinion. And if this is how you want things done. So be it. Just honestly, don't complain when "Shady" business occurs elsewhere in legislature.

I don't want someone who knows nothing to tell me I cannot send my horse to the rendering company. (Different than slaughter). That bill is going to limit my right to do that.

Horses will die. over 90000 were killed last year? WOW, that was MORE Than the estimate made in the Spring of 05'. And that number is on the increase!

Why? because of economy.

Why am I still talking? because people will read and be able to form an educated opinion on it because they will see the BIG picture. Not everyone knows the big picture. Not everyone can see beyond what the government hands out to us or the "animal RIGHTS activists" hand to us.

Animal welfare is involved. Yes.


Horses will still die. They will be euthanized or shot to death at home. And more will be SHOT to death than the vet called out. At least the slaughter house is more humane than some of the idiots that will attempt to shoot their horse when they cannot afford to pay for euthanization.

But then, there is another bill out, hanging around, that wants to limit our ability and right to do that as well. I'll find it, but it draws out WHEN and WHY you can attempt to shoot your horse. And "financial difficulties with no help" sure isn't on there.

Rescues are charging people to take on donations. If you can't afford to euthanize them (at a rediculously low average to euthanize AND dispose of...225? Where they pull that average out of?) you sure as heck can't afford to send them to a rescue, where the donation fees run about the same as that 225 number. (300 from one major organization to turn your horse over).

OR, you can just neglect the horse, and they'll take the horse for free...but then, you are up on neglect charges.

can't turn the horse loose....neglect and inhumane charges.

Did you know, the city of San Francisco, you do not own a cat or dog? you are their guardians. Just like your child. They can assign a lawyer with your tax dollars for a dog or cat......and soon...horse, cow, pig, sheep, goat...

So, if you are a horse guardian....an dthey are equal to humans...you cannot euthanize humans....so will that become a choice removed from us? God knows my grandmother wanted to be put out of her misery when she was dying a very painful, long death. We couldn't even pull the plug from the wall because of stupid doctors and red tape.







What is my choice? Find a cure for 100,000 horses not having homes every year. Limit breeding, I'm personally all for the national ID plan with horses...because then, you really DO have to have the finances to have a horse. We can prosecute people that neglect their horses easier, and use those funds to help the cause of homeless horses.

I feel that "unwanted" is not the right term. Homeless is more like it.


Government cannot pay for our own homeless, our own children (even before the war).

How can we fund what....2005 = 90000 horses?

We don't have enough hay to feed the few hundred in the pan handle....how on earth are we going to continue to feed horses that would have been put down the year before?

Horses will die. A LOT in the next few years when they close the doors.

HOW they die and the way they are disposed of is up to .......oh yeah...no one has figured that into the equation......

OK, I asked about if this was about political gain, if they are doing this for this, then I see a bigger issue, but I don't really see slaughter ending anytime soon, If this gets passed then we all will see really what will happen. the thing is this, in other country's people are starving, I don't know of any horse meat helping those in need out, i just find this industry all about the money, when i state that i mean the owners of the plants and such, not the workers in it. they the owners are getting fat on our ameican horses blood and that makes me hot headed, you know i am tired, but I id ask and you answered.

This country is sinking

[Super Step]

Originally Posted by Equine_Harmony

OK, I asked about if this was about political gain, if they are doing this for this, then I see a bigger issue, but I don't really see slaughter ending anytime soon, If this gets passed then we all will see really what will happen. the thing is this, in other country's people are starving, I don't know of any horse meat helping those in need out, i just find this industry all about the money, when i state that i mean the owners of the plants and such, not the workers in it. they the owners are getting fat on our ameican horses blood and that makes me hot headed, you know i am tired, but I id ask and you answered.

This country is sinking

You are correct. It is money and politics that run most countries, and all businesses.
Until voters voice their concerns at the polls, it will continue.

[freedom32]

Ok, who knew this would get heated and out of hand??

Just a few points I would like to put out there-
As far as putting my money where my mouth is--I have contacted my legislation regarding my opionions on this subject, I am a registered voter, and do vote, and my Congressmen know this, it is all too important to get out there and vote. Nothing will change unless you go to the polls.

As far as there being no increase in abuse/neglect cases, I can tell you from personal experience that here, and in many states horses are considered livestock, the same as cows, sheep, pigs, the like (note all animals frequently raised for food) There have been 4 separate cases locally this year alone where folks have gone to the media to report horrible cases of neglect with horses, because they have had no luck with the HUS and other agencys. Frequently animals must be walking skeletons before anything is done. Its sad, but it is true.

In regards to there not being 'too many horses'--I personally have been helping people I know place good, quality horses for next to nothing because there is no market. In most cases these are not animals they bred, but are animals they can't afford. The economy is bad, land prices are at a premium, property taxes are soaring, all facts. Most of us want the animals we have to sell go to good homes, but truth be told, the price of keeping a horse is just going up, and the paychecks aren't. Good homes are getting harder and harder to find.

What about the PMU industry?? Those horses are going to slaughter, and talk about irresponsible breeding! I think a few more fingers need pointed in the right places. Irresponsible breeding is one of the biggest problems in the industry, and I think we can all agree on this.

I also wanted to add, just because my horses are healthy and bought from private owners does not make me any less aware of what is going on in the industry. I commend those who can rescue a horse, but I do not have the land or resources to do so, most of us don't. I think it is safe to say that no one on this board wants animals to suffer, part of the reason these threads get so hot.

Once again, I do not like slaughter, but I do support it until someone can come up with a feasable alternative, and I just don't see that happening any time soon.

[pocahontas]

Originally Posted by Jess!

What happens to all the excess horses then.....just that many more to be neglected...

Originally Posted by pocahontas

Jess

I bet with all the people involved and trying to push the anit-slaughter bill, it has been addressed. Hopefully.

I will look into it and see if I can find anything. But, lately I don't have time to do much of anything..too much time at work.

So, if anyone else would like to?

Jess and others asking this question brought up a great point.
I did some contacting, and this is what I got in return:

Website:

http://www.horse-protection.org |

Cost of caring for unwanted horses
Question

: If horse slaughter is banned, do horse rescue and retirement groups have the
resources to take care of unwanted horses? Should the government have to pay for the care of
horses voluntarily given up by their owners?

Answer

: Not every horse currently going to slaughter will need to be absorbed into the rescue
community – many will be sold to a new owner, others will be kept longer, and some will be
humanely euthanized by a licensed veterinarian. Opponents of this legislation admit that
passage of the bill won’t necessarily lead to an increase in the number of horses being sent to
rescue facilities precisely because humane euthanasia is such a widely used method of disposal.
It is not the Federal government’s responsibility to provide for the care of horses voluntarily given
up by their owners; these animals are private property and should be cared for by their owners.
Hundreds of horse rescue organizations operate around the country, and additional facilities are
being established (list available).

Safe and humane disposal of sick, old and unwanted horses
Question

: If slaughter isn’t an option, how will we safely dispose of sick, old and unwanted
horses?

Answer

: Approximately 690,000 horses die in this country annually (10% of an estimated
population of 6.9M) - the vast majority of which is not slaughtered, but euthanized and rendered
or buried without any negative environmental impact. Humane euthanasia and carcass disposal
is highly affordable and widely available. The average cost of having a horse humanely
euthanized and its carcass safely disposed of is approximately $225, while the average monthly
cost of keeping a horse is approximately $200.

[Lou3]

Originally Posted by Stormy'smom

Ok this is something that the humane society of the United States is working on.

The very fact that it is the HSUS that is working on it makes it something that should be fought tooth and nail. They, like all other animal rights associations, are nothing more than terrorists with tax exemptions. They almost never give out anything other than false information, they use emotive false propaganda in order to acheive their ridiculous aims of total non-involvement by humans with animals.
They are a disgrace to the human race and anyone with an ounce of morality or even the tiniest bit of common sense should be trying to thwart their efforts at every turn. Animal rights organisations have done more to damage animal welfare in the last 50 years than they will ever do to enhance it.

Horse slaughter is not cruel and therefore as much as anything else we have no right to stop it. Personal freedoms may end where it causes the suffering of other creatures but since that is NOT the case with horse slaughter there is simply no legitimate argument for the ending of it. Horses are livestock not pets and therefore are candidates for slaughter no matter how unpleasant it may seem to the rest of us.

[haunani]

Originally Posted by Lou3

The very fact that it is the HSUS that is working on it makes it something that should be fought tooth and nail. They, like all other animal rights associations, are nothing more than terrorists with tax exemptions. They almost never give out anything other than false information, they use emotive false propaganda in order to acheive their ridiculous aims of total non-involvement by humans with animals.
They are a disgrace to the human race and anyone with an ounce of morality or even the tiniest bit of common sense should be trying to thwart their efforts at every turn. Animal rights organisations have done more to damage animal welfare in the last 50 years than they will ever do to enhance it.

Horse slaughter is not cruel and therefore as much as anything else we have no right to stop it. Personal freedoms may end where it causes the suffering of other creatures but since that is NOT the case with horse slaughter there is simply no legitimate argument for the ending of it. Horses are livestock not pets and therefore are candidates for slaughter no matter how unpleasant it may seem to the rest of us.

**CLAP** **CLAP**

Very well put

[Top Dun]

Seems to me that Horse slaughter WILL still go on, because this act DOES NOT stop horse slaughter for Animal consumption only HUMAN consumption. So Dog food, cat food and raw horse meat for zoos will still be available.

Originally Posted by pocahontas

the Act will end the slaughter of horses for human consumption and the domestic and international transport of live horses or horseflesh for the same purpose.