[IIIBarsV]

There is definitely a problem here- whether it's a pain issue somewhere, or the trainer being incompatible with this mare. Some horses will simply refuse to tolerate typical western pleasure training methods.

The fact that there's a twisted wire bit on a 2 yr old says something is seriously wrong with the methods being deployed here. When someone escalates to a more severe bit, especially on such a young horse, it means they really don't know how to use their hands properly. Even the dullest of dull horses will eventually learn to respond nicely to light pressure using pressure-release methods.

I recently brought my 3 yr old Zippo Pine Chex/Impulsions gelding home from the trainer- the trainer was supposed to have a good rep and not pound on them or push too hard, or use crutches. Well, turns out that was the wrong assumption. The horse now has a serious neck problem- whether in the vertebrae or muscle- from being tied around, roots on the bit every stride, has the dullest mouth I've ever felt, and has no idea what your legs mean without a spur. He was there for 6 weeks, and now has some serious bad habits that have to be fixed.

Some horses will put up with spurs and despite becoming ridiculously heavy on the forehand, will turn into decent riding western horses. Others just say "No, I'm not going to let them use that much pressure on me" and either turn balky or even fight back (rarely).

THIS IS A SIGN that you actually need to LIGHTEN things up, rather than increase them. This means go back to the ground work. This means get the twisted wire OFF the horse. This means take OFF the spurs.

The idea of pressure-release should be applied here. Start with the lightest pressure possible, then increase, and maintain- be annoying, not painful. It may take 10 minutes straight- but as soon as that horse even THINKS about moving, cease all action, and praise her. Then repeat.

Eventually, she'll learn that the sooner she moves, the sooner you quit annoying her. She may kick out- that's when you actually discipline her with a mean voice, for the aggressive behavior. Not moving is not aggressive behavior, therefore it does not need to be disciplined. But if the release is immediate and the praise is there, slowly but surely, she'll get better and better, and it will take less and less pressure. She will stay happier because you're not poking her with spurs to get her moving- this means no tail swishing, no pinned ears, and a horse who will stand out a little more in the show ring.

However, this will take incredible patience on your part and the trainer's. If either of you are incapable of that kind of patience to work with this little horse, then yes, I would definitely recommend selling her right now, more for her sake than yours.

Personally, 2 years old is pretty young and unless you're planning on doing the futurities, right now should be relaxed and about playing around on the ground, and doing little, easy things that make riding fun for HER. When she is a late 2 yr old or 3 yr old, she will think "Hey, riding's not so bad", and will be way more receptive to what you're asking.

If she's riding sour already, then somebody screwed up big time with this mare's training. However, if she's only been ridden like 5 times, then she probably just doesn't understand the idea of "forward" yet, in which case sticking with pressure-release and using a dressage whip is probably a good idea. Focus on walking for now. Have someone lead her from the ground with the rider. There is no rush to trot and lope, so expect nothing from her and she might just decide to give you something.

[BornToRide]

Originally Posted by JBandRio

What the heck do you need "control" for on a horse who won't go?

Turn her out for a year. Having a whole YEAR, as a yearling, on the lunge line, could very well have made her sour and sore.

When it's time to (re)start her again, find another trainer - this one obviously isn't up for the task.

When it's time to start working with her again, don't even think about getting on until you can get an active, prompt forward response to a cue from the ground.

Agreed!!!!! why the heck would you even think of using spurs and whips is just beyond me.. sounds like a pain issue. if i had a trainer do that to one of my horses.. they would be on there a ss so fast it wouldnt even be funny

[puzzles mom]

I think you need a new trainer, sounds like he is pushing this baby way too fast and all you will end up with is a cranky mare with a bad attitude. She sounds bored and annoyed with everything. skip the riding for a while, PLAY with her on the ground (yes I am a Parelli fan, to me it is all about the relationship if you want this to work in the long run) You need to engage her mind and get her WANTING to work with you. When you do play with her under saddle, try having another horse being ridden with her, let her play follow the leader. I was just at a Parelli tour this past weekend and he had 2 of his young horses he was demonstrating, they had no problem at all moving forward at all gaits AND were stopping and turning bridleless, you could just see they were having fun galloping around together in the arena, he was even able to transfer from his primary horse onto these young ones without getting on the ground, just had them side up to his horse and he transferred from one to the other, it was just such a nice demonstration of how well his program worked with these babies.
Also, get your horse out of the stall, the more time she has to run and play outside, it will develop her bones and muscles and help her to find the strength to carry a rider. Good luck and if you love this horse, don't give up on her but she does need a fair chance.

[thehorsebreaker]

poor pony sounds very confused if it was me and i dont know how you ride but if it was me i would take every thing of the horses head in the round pen and take my rope squezee with my legs cluck than gently tap my horses rump with rope when my horse tries to move i quit i dont want top try and make my horse go just make it diffficult to stay were he is i dont need anything on his head as i dont have any were to go any way so he is free in his mind to move his feet just what i would do may not be safe fdor you but i would get rid of your trainer as i start lots of two year olds and none ever not go i have a 6 yerar old at the moment sent to me because it didnt go this worked for it no problem good luck and keep safe

[Chester]

Originally Posted by jackiesbabyjet

We only ride her twice a week in lessons and she today off from lessons.
So we are not pushing her.

You have a 2yo baby that you only ride twice a week in lessons and expect a well broke horse???????

Sorry, I don't think that you are on the right path.

[Bruce Wiley]

Originally Posted by Red roan rider1

So this is the scenario: The trainer cannot figure this horse out and is telling you basically to write her off as being stubborn and sell her. Said trainer cannot make the horse move forward. Problem horse? Maybe. Wrong trainer, Likely. If you like your horse and your trainer does not, I'd start searching for a different trainer! In the meantime, give the horse a rest. Kick her out into the pasture and let her be for awhile.

Yes, like waiting for the horse to fully develop.
The growth plates: Give the horse enough time to finish.
I hope there isn't any physical structure damage on the young horse.

Bad trainers, can re enforce a horse bad behavior like yours.
The horse refuses to totally submit, but will do some things, not everything, yes that sounds about right.

*Find an competent, knowlegdeable & experienced trainer, and seek their advice about everthing.
I hope this helps.

[seaecho]

Wait a minute here. . . I have only read the first two pages of this thread, so forgive me if I'm being redundant and someone else has brought this up, but you said you put her in a twisted wire bit "for more control." What? You said you can't get her to move forward, yet you need a twisted wire bit? This does not make sense to me. Some horses are very sensitive in the mouth, and twisted bits should never be used on them. Could the bit be making her sour? I would take that bit right out of her mouth and not use it again. Seems to me (JMO) that it would only make the situation worse!

[me and morgan]

2 years old + riding for 2 months =
IMO way to young....Her poor little back...no proer muscle yet...plus saddle then plus a human...

[Kicks]

Originally Posted by jackiesbabyjet

Ive been with my trainer for about 13years now since I was 5.
Yes I know she way behind in the new things in the training field.

Why would you want to stay with a trainer who is "way behind in the new things in the training field" when you are wanting to put a competative horse in the show ring?

Your filly is still a BABY and she's telling you she's not ready for all the abuse and stress. From what you have said Filly isn't the one with a disposition 'problem' - the trainer is and needs a 'major attitude adjustment'. My opinion - if you can't/won't give her time to grow up (and get a different 'trainer') - then sell her so she may have a decent future.

Prayers for the little girl.

[dixygirl]

Horses aren't stubborn, They either don't understand what we are asking or for some physical reason can't perform as asked. A "trainer" that says such a thing seems ignorant and I would not let them touch my horse. I don't think he/she should be allowed to work on this horse or any other.


That being said, I do understand your reasons for wanting a trained ride, as you have explained you are not in the position to wait on a horse to catch up. You want a ride now without investing time or money in long relationship or long term training. It probably is a good idea for you to trade this horse for one older than 2 years old that has a lot of experience under it's belt. You may want to look into partial leasing too instead of ownership. It would be good to get one that someone else has already invested in training considering your circumstances and goals. Hearing you talk about paying $600.00 / month for boarding and just wanting a horse you can ride and compete.... is making me think you might want to just do a partial lease on a mature trained horse instead of starting out a youngster. A partial lease would surely be a lot cheaper than $600/month and still serve your purposes of just having rides on an already trained horse with out as much responsibility.

This seems like a bad match IMHO. A baby horse needs a mother and someone sincerely interested in its development ( emotional, physical and mental) Not just someone interested in seriously riding and competing for results. With a partial lease of an older horse, the other owner can do the emotional care giving and pampering, while you just work on your serious rides and competitions. That way the horse is not missing out on a good upbringing in the process of your achieving your competitve riding goals.