Truck Accessories Direct Pro Dog Grooming Supplies (Forum, Chat Tips & More) Horse Grooming Supplies (Free Shipping on orders over $50)
Go Back   Horse Forums (HGS) > Horse Rescue / Adoption

Outdoor Lighting
Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-16-2006, 11:14 AM   #121
Senior Member+
 
arabgirl15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SW Minnesota
Posts: 3,224
Images: 69
Blog Entries: 16

And why would I bother to? It is none of my business. You know the world is so involved with other people's business.

Ok tell me where it says that.


And that is what you think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barn_Brat
Oh yeah I wonder how many horse owners you have went around asking if they thought horses were livestock. AND the bible says that horses and other animals should NOT be eaten! Especially getting shot ten times at various part of the body. I DONT think it is right what happens to them.

Not fact, that is your opinion. Period. That is the goverments opinion.Period. Some of those horses have worked hard all of there lives trying to please us and what to we do? Put them threw a painful scary death. That is Hypicritcal...If you truely loved horses you wouldent support horse slaughter....I think people know it is horrible, but cover it up by trying to be practical and fit into the crowd here at HGS
Ok. It's the governments opinion. Now drop it and leave it alone.

Well atleast they do die! Instead of being shot by a bullet and the owners THINK they are dead and leave them to die by themselves after x days.

And who are you to tell me if I am a horse lover or not? Honestly. Uggh. I truely love horses, but no where do I HAVE to not support horse slaughter to truely love them. And another thing. That is your OPPINION on a TRUE HORSE LOVER. Not mine. I am a true horse lover. And I can think whoever I want is a horse lover, but I have SELF CONTROL and KEEP IT TO MYSELF.

Thank you very much for calling me a not true horse lover. That makes me feel very loved. Shows you what true horse lovers and a Christian (you read the bible) are all about. Thanks.

__________________
Monica
To be believed, make the truth unbelievable.
Napoleon Bonaparte

Last edited by arabgirl15; 04-16-2006 at 05:15 PM.
arabgirl15 is offline  
Our Sponsors
Old 04-16-2006, 11:26 AM   #122
Banned
 
Barn_Brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,302
Images: 7
Blog Entries: 5
No. But I think that if you loved horses why would you so strongly support slaughter
Barn_Brat is offline  
Old 04-16-2006, 12:04 PM   #123
Senior Member+
 
arabgirl15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SW Minnesota
Posts: 3,224
Images: 69
Blog Entries: 16

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barn_Brat
No. But I think that if you loved horses why would you so strongly support slaughter
I have my reasons.
__________________
Monica
To be believed, make the truth unbelievable.
Napoleon Bonaparte
arabgirl15 is offline  
Old 04-16-2006, 12:07 PM   #124
Senior Member+
 
BornToRide's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,009
Images: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barn_Brat
No. But I think that if you loved horses why would you so strongly support slaughter

there are diffrent reasons people support and do not support. you for one should not be bashing her opinion on it.. to each is own personally i dont support it but there are many that do.
__________________
There are times when you can trust a horse, times when you can't and times when you have to.


got to get the bagel with the cream cheeze oh the creamy creamy cheeze
eh Blistering Winds? lmao
BornToRide is offline  
Old 04-16-2006, 12:19 PM   #125
Banned
 
Barn_Brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,302
Images: 7
Blog Entries: 5
Im not bashing anything...I was stating my opinion.
Barn_Brat is offline  
Old 04-16-2006, 12:43 PM   #126
Banned
 
Barn_Brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,302
Images: 7
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by arabgirl15
And why would I bother to? It is none of my business. You know the world is so involved with other people's business.

Ok tell me where it says that.


And that is what you think.

Ok. It's the governments opinion. Now drop it and leave it alone.

Well atleast they do die! Instead of being shot by a bullet and the owners THINK they are dead and leave them to die by themselves after x days.

And who are you to tell me if I am a horse lover or not? Honestly. Uggh. I truely love horses, but no where do I HAVE to not support horse slaughter to truely love them. And another thing. That is your OPPINION on a TRUE HORSE LOVER. Not mine. I am a true horse lover. And I can think whoever I want is a horse lover, but I have SELF CONTROL and KEEP IT TO MYSELF.

Thank you very much for calling me a not true horse lover. That makes me feel very loved. Shows you what true horse lovers and a Christian (you read the bible) are all about. Thanks.

PFFF and she isent bashing me..
Barn_Brat is offline  
Old 04-16-2006, 01:51 PM   #127
Senior Member+
 
arabgirl15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SW Minnesota
Posts: 3,224
Images: 69
Blog Entries: 16

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barn_Brat
PFFF and she isent bashing me..

2 Wrongs don't make a right.
__________________
Monica
To be believed, make the truth unbelievable.
Napoleon Bonaparte
arabgirl15 is offline  
Old 04-16-2006, 02:45 PM   #128
Senior Member
 
Equine_Harmony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: In a horses mind
Posts: 832
Images: 11
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou3
The site you quote has NO real facts. It is an activist site and not a word on it is true. Your information is overwhelmingly false, do not post such information as fact.

Lou3,

You have no right to state to me or anyone the above... what information to post. Any site person(s) in your eyes that are against the slaughter of the horse, if one person shall speak one word, only one word they do not find it humane, you are always calling people activists, or you state it comes from and activist site or person. There are two types of activists and one is The Animal Rights Activist, The Animal Welfare Activist, yes I'm one of those activists, I work as much as I can down my local animal shelter, I work for free, travel over 100 miles to help w/ a horse rescue ranch in Conn. anyway...
You even say the old video is 20 years old, it is shot in Mexico, like that would make a difference how these horses were killed with my eyes, and you went as far to state that video was not "real" OK this is your Belief, yet, Lou3 show me proof of all you have been adding since I have been a member here w/ threads such as this and I will make an apology to you, other than that you seem desperate, more so than the Ani Slaughter's and I find this strange.

If you were to post a thread w/ a pro slaughter site/information, I would weed through what I find in belief of my heart and eyes, I would not be rude and name calling such as you.


Pro slaughter forces point to anti slaughter advocates as animal rights activists. Up until the time many of us choose to speak out against horse slaughter, we are professionals in the horse industry, or lifelong horse owners. We are part of the horse industry. The pro slaughter forces use the term animal rights activist to discredit and dismiss our arguments against the slaughter of our horses.

Last edited by Equine_Harmony; 04-16-2006 at 03:06 PM. Reason: added something
Equine_Harmony is offline  
Old 04-16-2006, 03:19 PM   #129
Senior Member
 
Equine_Harmony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: In a horses mind
Posts: 832
Images: 11
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by arabgirl15
And why would I bother to? It is none of my business. You know the world is so involved with other people's business.

Ok tell me where it says that.


And that is what you think.

Ok. It's the governments opinion. Now drop it and leave it alone.

Well atleast they do die! Instead of being shot by a bullet and the owners THINK they are dead and leave them to die by themselves after x days.

And who are you to tell me if I am a horse lover or not? Honestly. Uggh. I truely love horses, but no where do I HAVE to not support horse slaughter to truely love them. And another thing. That is your OPPINION on a TRUE HORSE LOVER. Not mine. I am a true horse lover. And I can think whoever I want is a horse lover, but I have SELF CONTROL and KEEP IT TO MYSELF.

Thank you very much for calling me a not true horse lover. That makes me feel very loved. Shows you what true horse lovers and a Christian (you read the bible) are all about. Thanks.

Hi,

I know you love horses, I read your posts, just because a person feels this has to be done, does not make them out to be a person who does not love horses, you see this animals more than livestock, you see him as a pet, an animnal you can ride with as one in sport or pleasure, while your doing this, you and the horse are happy and as one, your a team...Some people see him as usable only and have no love for him, I know of a few, yet I would never statye to here...
Equine_Harmony is offline  
Old 04-16-2006, 03:27 PM   #130
Senior Member+
 
Sandra-A1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Alabama
Posts: 8,406
Images: 225

Smile

It is to the horse AND the horse owner's benefit that horses remain classified as LIVESTOCK!
Quote:
Presently, in most states, horses are classified as livestock and are under the regulation of the Department of Agriculture. Step six of the 12-Step Animal Rights Agenda states: "Transfer enforcement of animal welfare legislation away from the Department of Agriculture." Why do they want to do this? Because the Department of Agriculture is a powerful bloc against the animal rights movement and horses have enjoyed the protection of laws formulated to protect the livestock industry against outside legislation.

However, once removed from the classification of livestock and redefined as "companion animals" or pets, horses would lose that protection and become subject to laws enforced by local and state animal control agencies. This would automatically make them subject to the same type of regulations and laws that are already in place for dogs and cats (the original "companion animals").

"Ridiculous!" you say? Look at any animal control ordinance and read the definition of "animals." An animal is not defined specifically as a dog or cat. The definition usually says an animal is any living creature except man, insects, and worms. The term "companion animal" is usually used by the animal rights movement to mean dogs, cats, or other pets. With a change in classification, horses would also be so designated.

Why is this so dangerous? Because whereas the Department of Agriculture has managed to keep tight control of livestock laws, just the opposite has happened within animal control departments. For decades, animal control has worked closely with and has been influenced by humane and welfare societies . . . the same organizations that over the past 15 years have shifted away from the concept of animal welfare towards that of animal rights. Many such animal rights groups now call themselves animal protection organizations because their leaders no longer believe in animal welfare. Their money, focus, and campaigns are now devoted to the cause of animal rights. In fact, some in the movement actually call animal welfare "the enemy."

Those animal control agencies are now becoming even more controlled by the animal rights groups. All across the country, government is setting up animal welfare advisory committees at local and state levels. Doris Day Animal League is even trying to set one up at the federal level. Such committees are composed of lay (not elected) people who suggest and formulate legislation concerning animals. Those lay people always represent a certain number of animal rights (protection/welfare/humane) organizations; the longer the committees are in existence, the more expansive the number of animal rights representatives become on those committees.

The danger of this should be so obvious that it cannot be ignored.

Please go back and re-read the suffocating laws dog and cat breeders have had piled on them in the space of eight short years. It doesn't happen overnight, but where does the horse industry want to find itself eight or 10 years from now?
Another Point Of View.........
Quote:

Slaughter bill is not in best interests of horses

By Dennis J. Foster
The slaughter of horses in the United States, one of the most controversial issues in the equine world, is an emotional issue that makes it very difficult to be pragmatic despite overwhelming evidence supporting its continuation.

Animal rights groups are behind a draft bill to ban the use of horseflesh because it supports their hidden agenda to sever human-animal ties and has little to do with their concern for the welfare of horses. This draft bill makes it a criminal offense to sell, or put down, a horse that might be used for human consumption. It is expected to go to Congress this year.

Emotional decisions don’t always result in what is best for the horse. Criminalizing the slaughter of horses is more detrimental to horse welfare than continuing the practice. Animal rights groups would have you believe that good-quality horses that are fit for riding or horses that have massive injury or disease end up on the dinner table. While it is true that the occasional salvageable horse will go to slaughter because it is unwanted or has no economic value, the overwhelming numbers of horses going to slaughter are not salvageable (“Slaughter Horses” by Les Sellnow Dec 1999, Essential Horse). According to this 1999 study, “99 percent of the horses slaughtered for human consumption have lost their value for one reason or another and are not rideable.” Some have leg or lameness problems that don’t allow them to perform. Some have personality problems which make them dangerous to ride. Many are the product of neglect resulting in bad feet and malnourishment, and some are just old and no longer safe to ride.

------------------------------------------------------------

Regulations
Horses used for human consumption are required to pass more rigorous examinations than cattle, sheep, hogs and chickens before reaching the consumer. This is because of the rigid rules established by the European Union and the fact that all of our horsemeat is exported. The US Department of Agriculture is responsible for the inspection of all slaughter plants. One of the ironies of this bill is it does not mention horses sold to dog or cat food plants. It only mentions human consumption because the thought of eating a horse sends a stronger emotional message to the public.

Most of the controversy over the slaughter of horses for human consumption deals with transportation. There are horror stories of horses jammed into double-decker cattle trucks, trucked for hours without food and water and arriving at slaughter facilities with massive injuries and general suffering. Historically, there are documented cases of this abuse. In those days, 450,000 horses were slaughtered each year in the US, but today laws are in place to protect the approximately 63,000 horses slaughtered each year. When the horses get to the plants, the USDA rejects horses that have a high fever, central nervous system dysfunction or signs of infection. Any horse found in these categories must be removed, humanely destroyed and the meat must be safely disposed of. In addition, the USDA has to reject the meat of any horse that has signs of bruising

Congresswoman Connie Morella (R-MD) drafted bill HR 3781 (with the assistance of animal rights organizations) that will set a precedent assisting animal rights groups toward their acknowledged goals of a petless/meatless society. HR 3781 will hurt, not help horse welfare. Horses that are unwanted, not serviceable or cannot be ridden for whatever reason must go somewhere. We would all like to believe there is this big pasture in the sky and, most assuredly, many horse owners arrange this for their trusty old steeds, but the reality is, few horses make it to the age to become trusty old steeds, so this bill affects horses that are unfit to ride, unwanted or have no market value other than for consumption. Most horse owners cannot afford to pay board for such horses, and there are not enough rescue facilities to accommodate the sheer numbers. The bill’s solution is for the government and the person in violation to pay the costs associated with subsidizing animal rescue facilities, resulting in substantial expense for the taxpayer because of the enormous number of horses needing a home.

HR 3781 is laced with half-truths and misinformation and will effectively remove equines from the category of livestock. If horses are taken out of this category, owner options will be drastically limited should a horse become a problem. According to the American Association of Equine Practitioners, an association of horse doctors and veterinary students, HR 3781 will redefine horses out of their federal and state classifications as livestock for welfare, research, liability laws and tax considerations. The AAEP opposes HR3781 because they believe it will lead to more horse abuse from owners who can’t afford to have a veterinarian put a horse down and then pay to dispose of the carcass, a process which costs hundreds of dollars.

------------------------------------------------------------

Why horses?
Animal rights groups choose horses to make a legislative statement because horses are most likely to evoke an emotional response from the American public. It worked in California, where the California Thoroughbred Association did not initially support the bill but caved in when its membership made an emotional appeal. Most horse owners will blindly support any law they believe will benefit horses, but what horse owners are not aware of is the long term and escalating suffering horses will have to endure if such a bill is passed.

The human consumption message in this bill is an animal rights ploy to gain public support. Had they proposed banning slaughter for pet food it might not have emitted the same response from the public. Removing horses from the classification of livestock will start a domino effect and set a precedent that will allow animal rights groups to work toward reclassifying of other kinds of animals used for food or human comfort. The truth is horses have been eaten since man first ate meat. Horsemeat is still eaten in many countries and there are people in the US and Canada who eat horsemeat. Horsemeat is popular in many European countries because it is almost devoid of fat, very low in cholesterol and high in iron. The meat cuts are the same as cattle or sheep. Unlike other meats, the older the horses, the more tender the meat because when horses age muscle fiber breaks down, making it tender.

At first glance, the bill would appear to allow slaughtering of horses for reasons such as pet food, but at second glance the “intended for human consumption, and for other purposes” wording makes it obvious that “for other purposes” will make any form of slaughter illegal. The American people may not object as vehemently to slaughter for pet food. This is ironic considering horsemeat used for pet food doesn’t have as many restrictions or safeguards as horses used for human consumption.

When considering HR 3781, there are four issues that must be addressed: Animal welfare, human emotion, freedom and liberty, and the animal rights hidden agenda.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Animal welfare
We must address the animal welfare issues to the satisfaction of the average person. Animal welfare is not animal rights. Welfare is care and protection whereas rights are political. We must assure that the abuses cited in this bill to justify the need for the bill no longer exist. If any issues still exist, they can be corrected without the need for a new law.

It is imperative that the care of horses intended for slaughter be humane from the time they leave the farm until the moment they are put down.

The bill is based on major inaccuracies. Section 2 of the bill, Congress makes the following findings, states horses are not used for food and fiber in the US. However, while there is no question that horsemeat is not popular in the US, some families do eat it. Most of them are probably lower income families or people from other countries where horsemeat is popular.

The animal welfare issues cited in paragraph four of the bill are no longer true. They assert that horses are regularly injured and abused during transport. A 1999 study conducted by Dr. Temple Grandin published in the Journal of American Veterinary Medical Association found that owners were the cause of abused and neglected horses, not transportation or care at slaughter plants.

The bill cites poor conditions and callous treatment in slaughterhouses. Another study done by Les Sellnow in December of 1999, published in the Essential Horse states that quite the opposite is true. Horses are treated humanely according to laws already in place for the slaughter of livestock. There is a new federal law called the “Commercial Transport of Equines for Slaughter” which is designed to protect horses during transport to slaughter facilities. It is true countries like Mexico do not have laws as strict as those in the US. Abuses are documented in that country. In recent years the Humane Society fo the US has shown animal abuse films to the government that did not represent the true situation. We must be on guard against that possibility when this issue goes to congress.

USDA reports do not support animal welfare abuses. Processing plants keep horses a minimal period of time and the horses are provided with proper space, water and food. Any animal killed is not a pretty sight but life is ended in one sudden instant. Federal legislation is in place that requires swift humane dispatch of slaughter animals. Ending the lives of horses is no different than ending the life of cattle, sheep, goats or hogs.

The American Horse Counsel believes horses will endure far more suffering should this bill become law. Horse owners need a reasonable way to dispose of horses that can no longer work, have no commercial value and are unwanted. “The AAEP is of the opinion that the international market provides a price floor within the equine industry that ensures every horse has a baseline economic value at every stage of its lifecycle. This is important in deterring neglect and prevents serious welfare problems such as overpopulation.”

Under the proposed bill horse owners who feel it necessary to put a horse down would have no alternative save an expensive veterinarian. The cost of that service and the cost of disposing of the animal would be prohibitive to many. Animal rights groups have openly advocated that making it too expensive to own animals will help them in their goal of a petless/meatless society. The way the bill is written, it could be interpreted that personally putting one’s own horse down using an appropriate firearm in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing would be illegal. Under the current system an owner receives some compensation for an unsuitable or chronically lame horse by being able to sell it.

------------------------------------------------------------

Human emotion
Regrettably even if we satisfy the welfare issues it will not necessarily resolve the emotional issues, and if we don’t address the emotional issues we lose. In order to defeat this bill and keep it from reappearing in various forms, we must educate the public through the various media that horses will not be abused and that the end will come quickly. Slaughtering horses provides a service that is better for the horse’s welfare than long term neglect. This bill will have an adverse effect on the overall welfare of the horse population and will cause a financial burden on horse owners and taxpayers. Horse organizations are going to find their misinformed memberships supporting this bill, and despite their understanding of the problems created by this bill, the leadership of these horse organizations will likely give into the pressures. If this happens, the real losers will be the horses.

------------------------------------------------------------

Freedom and liberty
An important issue here is really freedom and liberty. This is not a welfare issue as laws are already in place to protect horses. The rational for the law does not exist any longer. It is a ploy by animal rights groups to further their hidden agenda. We should be able to live our lives within the law and not be dictated to by groups of people who have no tolerance for other life styles. What right has an AR group with an agenda of a petless/meatless society to tell people what they can eat? Horses are eaten around the world. Will there be another law forbidding the eating of other forms of meat next? Horses have always been livestock and should remain as such.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Hidden agenda
Who are the animal rights groups behind this law? What is their bottom line? As written, this bill is pure animal rights doctrine that proposes that animals have equal rights to humans, a doctrine that finds no difference between a ant and a child as stated by HSUS vice president Michael Fox in The Inhumane Society, New York, 1990: “The life of an ant and that of my child should be granted equal consideration.”

HSUS is a supporter of this bill.

When Ingrid Newkirk, president of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals said, “One day, we would like an end to pet shops and breeding of animals,” she meant all domestic animals (Chicago Daily Herald, March 1, 1990).

According to HSUS vice president Wayne Pacelli, “We have no ethical obligation to preserve the different breeds of livestock produced through selective breeding… One generation and out. We have no problem with the extinction of domestic animals. They are creations of human selective breeding” (May 1993).

Let us put the issues in perspective. We need to make sure all horse welfare issues are addressed and enforced. We do not need a law dictated by animal rights doctrine that will cause horses more suffering and take away our rights to manage and care for them.
Both of the above quotes were found on the National Animal Interest Alliance website: http://www.naiaonline.org/index.htm


ALL of us, and I do mean ALL.... want to do what is best for OUR horses.
Not one of us wants someone else forcing us to do it "THEIR" way and taking away our right to do things as we want for our own animals.

Before you jump on any group's band wagon you MUST consider what the LONG term effect is going to be and how any law or regulation will open the door to one that you will NOT want passed and enforced. Doing so IS important and all animal owners must start doing this before things get so far out of our control that it is too late to turn things back!

As with any of these groups, and laws they are wanting passed, PLEASE look closely at it. Educate yourself when it comes to the wording of Bills and Laws and take them apart. See where there are loop-holes. Consider the next possible step that these laws can lead to. Your right to own and enjoy your horse...or any animal IS at risk. If you do not want ot lost that right all of us had better start paying close...and more...attention to these laws.

PLEASE.....Do not let your passion for a cause blind you to the fact that you could very possibly be putting your own rights at risk!
__________________
"It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." ~Dumbledore
Sandra-A1 is online now  
Our Sponsors
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Alert on horse slaughter. Federal bills to ban horse slaughter: attention required! dfernandez Horse Rescue / Adoption 201 07-13-2006 08:17 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:38 PM.


SEO by vBSEO ©2008, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2008 - Horse Grooming Supplies
One of the largest message boards on the web !