[MissHopesMom]

Originally Posted by GraceandThomas

Ive owned him for about a year now. He is 8, but he is still green.

Its the only time that I have ever heard of him being disrespectful to other people, but hes doesnt do it with me. Two days ago I was told that he attacked one of the workers for no reason, but I dont believe that because hes never done that to anyone, whether he liked them or not. Hes not pushy when leading. When I got him, I was told to use a chain because he was really pushy, but once he hasnt been pushy for months. The only time I use it now is when he gets his feet done, but even then its just over his nose, I dont actually have to use it.

No offense, but it seems like people are coming to complain to you, and you are brushing them off.

You first say that it's the only time you've heard of him being disrespectful, but then this thread is about him trying to kick when eating, but he's attacked someone too? And when you got him, he was pushy to boot.

For me and my horses, ALL of those are some pretty serious offenses. Kicking is NOT allowed at all, and if either one of them EVER tried to attack ANYONE, they would have the biggest "come to jesus" moment of their life. Pushiness is disrespectful, in my books. The horse is disrespecting the handler's space, as well as their authority.

I know it's very hard to believe that the horses we love can be nasty with others - but I wouldn't be so quick to disbelieve someone bringing to your attention a serious problem. I'm not saying to take everything as the gospel truth, as others can over-exaggerate (sp?!) but maybe watch and see what's going on. Just because he doesn't do it with you, doesn't mean that he won't do it to someone else - and if you don't want to acknowledge that, he's a big liability.

For instance, my 2 yr old filly Amber is darn near perfect for me. But she won't lead a darn for my mother, sister, friends, etc.

Sounds to me like your boy has a bit of a rep and is in need of an attitude adjustment.

[GraceandThomas]

Originally Posted by MissHopesMom

No offense, but it seems like people are coming to complain to you, and you are brushing them off.

You first say that it's the only time you've heard of him being disrespectful, but then this thread is about him trying to kick when eating, but he's attacked someone too? And when you got him, he was pushy to boot.

For me and my horses, ALL of those are some pretty serious offenses. Kicking is NOT allowed at all, and if either one of them EVER tried to attack ANYONE, they would have the biggest "come to jesus" moment of their life. Pushiness is disrespectful, in my books. The horse is disrespecting the handler's space, as well as their authority.

I know it's very hard to believe that the horses we love can be nasty with others - but I wouldn't be so quick to disbelieve someone bringing to your attention a serious problem. I'm not saying to take everything as the gospel truth, as others can over-exaggerate (sp?!) but maybe watch and see what's going on. Just because he doesn't do it with you, doesn't mean that he won't do it to someone else - and if you don't want to acknowledge that, he's a big liability.

For instance, my 2 yr old filly Amber is darn near perfect for me. But she won't lead a darn for my mother, sister, friends, etc.

Sounds to me like your boy has a bit of a rep and is in need of an attitude adjustment.

What makes you think im brushing it off? I am answering the questions that people are asking me and I am reading what everyone has to say. Is that brushing it off to you?

I have only heard of him being disrespectful to other people. The only time he did anything close to kicking me was when I blanketed him for the first time and he was a little confused, but he didnt try to kick me or anything. When I got him, I was told that he kicks people when he is eating. I have never had a problem with it. And when I got him he was pushy, but hes not now, so what was your point with that?

I never said that kicking wasnt serious, but how do you expect me to punish him for something he did hours before I got there? If he was to do it with me, he would have consequences, but he doesnt so I'm not going to go and punish him for something that never seems to be a problem when I am around. The barn he was at before he never had a problem with kicking any of the workers, which says a lot because some of them didnt know ANYTHING about horses.


If I didnt want to acknowledge that he could do this to someone do you think I would have started this thread?

[Rosie12]

I think you missed a few things.

No offense, but it seems like people are coming to complain to you, and you are brushing them off.

Two days ago I was told that he attacked one of the workers for no reason, but I dont believe that

MissHopesMom wasn't talking about us, she was talking about the people that have told you these things. That's why she said "I'm not saying to take everything as the gospel truth". And the serious problem she's talking about?

Kicking is NOT allowed at all, and if either one of them EVER tried to attack ANYONE, they would have the biggest "come to jesus" moment of their life.

I never said that kicking wasnt serious, but how do you expect me to punish him for something he did hours before I got there? If he was to do it with me, he would have consequences, but he doesnt so I'm not going to go and punish him for something that never seems to be a problem when I am around.

Part of the problem is your horse, but another part of that problem is your attitude. I understand not wanting to punish because it never happens to you, but that doesn't mean there's nothing you can do about. And don't get mad at me for saying that and not giving adivce, because there's been advice:

Her solution to this issue was to make him work every time he turned his bum even slightly to her ( he now turns to face his handler as they approach ) and when given the opportunity to halt, must do so facing her. It took him a while to get this - and she did it with his feed pan involved ( this is why I think it might be a good exercise for your horse ). He could come to eat after he's stood nicely without turning his bum, and had been caught, or whatever she needed to do with him.

ETA: His "punishment" was actually only to be shooed away from her, and asked to keep his little hiney moving for approx 3-4 circles around the small paddock, before he got the opportunity to stand and behave... if he wasn't going to cooperate, well that little hiney could keep going another 3-4 circles. But was always given the opportunity to do the right thing and stand quietly.

Could just do the easy thing, put kicking chains on him

But also exercises in his stall, like grooming him while he eats. be able to groom his rear. Be able to switch sides by walking behind.
Even if you want to just put a bucket with a little bit of grain down, and pet him, see how he reacts to loving him up while he eats. Keep a short whip near by though, if he so much as raises a leg at you, tap him sharply, and immedietely. When you can successfully walk around him while he eats without so much as a flinch, then you start bringing other people in, explain to them his situation and what you are trying to accomplish. Let them do as you have done. Come in his stall several times during a feeding and just pet and walk around him.
ANY action that resembles hostility deserves a slap, if he threatens more, you give him more.

You could also google/Yahoo/Bing/(whatever else there is out there) for articles or free videos that could give you ideas.

The point? Horses need to be taught that dangerous/agressive behaviour is not acceptable, no matter who is around them, no matter what the situation.

EX: Dangerous behaviour - kicking. My gelding kicked at the ferrier multiple times. Was I there? No. Do I believe it? Yes. Because he's kicked at me. He has a slight history of it. Did I discipline him? Yes. Did that stop him from kicking at the ferrier? No. Did I punish him for kicking at the ferrier? In effect, yes. I made him yeild his hindquarters until he did that without a fuss, and constantly fussed/messed with his feet. Does he kick at me now? No. Does he kick at the ferrier? Havn't tried yet, we're waiting until about next week to try. The point? He got disciplined for dangerous/agressive action. Was it immediate? No. But it couldn't have been, because I wasn't there. But it was dealt with.

That's what we're saying, and that's what you're missing. I know you can't be there for every single feeding, and I know he doesn't do it with you, but it doesn't mean it's not a problem, and it doesn't mean it shouldn't be dealth with, just because you weren't there.

[MissHopesMom]

Originally Posted by GraceandThomas

What makes you think im brushing it off? I am answering the questions that people are asking me and I am reading what everyone has to say. Is that brushing it off to you?

I have only heard of him being disrespectful to other people. The only time he did anything close to kicking me was when I blanketed him for the first time and he was a little confused, but he didnt try to kick me or anything. When I got him, I was told that he kicks people when he is eating. I have never had a problem with it. And when I got him he was pushy, but hes not now, so what was your point with that?

I never said that kicking wasnt serious, but how do you expect me to punish him for something he did hours before I got there? If he was to do it with me, he would have consequences, but he doesnt so I'm not going to go and punish him for something that never seems to be a problem when I am around. The barn he was at before he never had a problem with kicking any of the workers, which says a lot because some of them didnt know ANYTHING about horses.


If I didnt want to acknowledge that he could do this to someone do you think I would have started this thread?

I meant brushing off the concerns of the people that have to work with your horse. Saying that you don't believe a person when they say that your horse has been an issue for them is a brush-off to me. Your posts have come off to me as quite flippant regarding the situation.

Saying "this topic keeps coming up and it is starting to drive me crazy that no one will listen to what I have to say, they just keep telling me that I need to train him to not kick at people" is conveying to me that you are more irritated with the people telling you what you need to be doing, than concerned with the safety of the workers. I apologize if I've misunderstood in any way.

My point with the pushiness is that he was disrespectful in the past, and it shouldn't really be too much of a stretch of the imagination to have him do so again. Especially if he's not been consistently reprimanded for his disrespectful behaviour. He should know that when I do "this", "THIS" is the consequence, so I better not do "this"

You don't need to reprimand him for the behaviour hours after the fact. In fact, that's more counter-productive than anything else.

What I might suggest you try is to take him into a pen if you have one available to you, with a pan of feed. Let him loose, so you can ask him to move away and keep moving until YOU ask him to stop and wait. You KNOW he's going to turn his bum to you when you approach him at the pan, so be prepared to send him away from that feed at the slightest movement of his hind end towards you. Keep him moving for a short amount of time, then ask him to stop. When he whoa's, he should be either standing in place, or turned his head/front end towards you. If you approach and he goes to turn his hind end, keep him going! He'll get this very quickly, I should think.

It's telling him that to stand while someone approaches, even if food is near, is the right thing to do - turning his bum and kicking are the wrong things to do, and when he does those wrong things, he has to do work.

We found that this method really helped Jack, and even spilled over into other aspects of his handling. He is a pleasure for everyone to work with these days, whereas previously even the trainer thought that getting rid of him was in his imminent future.

[nicz2cu]

If his behavior is not changed, you may end up having to feed him all of his meals or move him.

Kicking is a serious problem and I don't blame anyone if they were to refuse to feed him.

Your horse, your responsibility to train him... perhaps you could ask to watch a few times , their procedure of feeding and then show them yours to see what's going on that may be contributing to the problem.

Either way... it needs to be fixed.