[Luvs Phin]

Lol. Okay. But the post just sounded like you were upset because the people want you to make your horse stop kicking.
But you can't blame them for being frustrated with your horse and telling you you need to change it.

[GraceandThomas]

He will kick at people when they walk behind him when he is eating. I have heard about him trying to get this one guy who snuck up on him while he was eating to move him to the pasture for some reason and he turned around to kick at him, but I wasnt there for that I just heard about it. The guy he apparently tried to kick at yesterday is a "cowboy" from what ive been told. I think that he thinks he knows more about horses then he really does, but ive never met him. He was trying to move him to the pasture, but apparently attacked him for no reason which I dont believe, but that is what I was told. Again, I wasnt there.

[MissHopesMom]

Originally Posted by GraceandThomas

I never said I wasn't working on it. I have just warned them that he can be aggressive because he does do it sometimes. I was asking for suggestions on how to fix this problem because it has not been fixed all of the way yet.

We've sent a young gelding off for training recently, whose tendency was to kick if uncomfortable ( rescue project - he is 1 1/2 with very little handling up until our purchase of him a few months ago ). He kicked the trainer when she tried to catch him ( he has major trust issues ).

Her solution to this issue was to make him work every time he turned his bum even slightly to her ( he now turns to face his handler as they approach ) and when given the opportunity to halt, must do so facing her. It took him a while to get this - and she did it with his feed pan involved ( this is why I think it might be a good exercise for your horse ). He could come to eat after he's stood nicely without turning his bum, and had been caught, or whatever she needed to do with him.

[Luvs Phin]

I agree with the above post. But also exercises in his stall, like grooming him while he eats. be able to groom his rear. Be able to switch sides by walking behind.
Even if you want to just put a bucket with a little bit of grain down, and pet him, see how he reacts to loving him up while he eats. Keep a short whip near by though, if he so much as raises a leg at you, tap him sharply, and immedietely. When you can successfully walk around him while he eats without so much as a flinch, then you start bringing other people in, explain to them his situation and what you are trying to accomplish. Let them do as you have done. Come in his stall several times during a feeding and just pet and walk around him.
ANY action that resembles hostility deserves a slap, if he threatens more, you give him more.
Other more general exercises (not food specific) are good to do with him, as mentioned above. He is never to swing his rear to you, for any reason.
How long have you owned him/how old is he?

[meljean]

Could just do the easy thing, put kicking chains on him. Won't hurt him at all, will let him punish himself, and make things easier for everyone.

[MissHopesMom]

Originally Posted by meljean

Could just do the easy thing, put kicking chains on him. Won't hurt him at all, will let him punish himself, and make things easier for everyone.

I've never used kicking chains before - and I don't think I know anyone who has.

Does it stop them from kicking only in the physical and immediate manner? Meaning, if a horse kicks out when a lunge whip is rubbed on their hind quarters, it will stop them from doing it at the time, but what if you take the chains off - does it still help? Will it help with kicking in various situations, even if used only for the one situation? ( Kicks when eating, but also say, kicks when picking feet out ) Sorry, I have no idea!

It seems like this horse needs an "attitude" adjustment when it comes to food.

Just curious, I would like to ask the OP - is when the horse eating the only time he's disrespectful of humans? Maybe not flat out dangerous habits like kicking, but things like being pushy when leading?

[meljean]

The kicking chains will help both while wearing and when they are not on. It basically lets the horse punish themselves, if they don't kick, they don't get the repercussions.

You can make a very inexpensive set, using hammer handles, dog collars, I like the leather ones, but can use nylon, and a metal O ring, and soft cotton rope, or the kind that is part nylon? that you can burn ends to finish off.

Saw off the part of the handle that you would attach hammer head to, so it is flat across, sand it until smooth, then drill a hole about 1 to 1 1/2 inches down from narrow end. Take about six inches of the rope, and run one end through the hole. Take O ring, and attach it to the leash ring on dog collar, pinch shut with pliers, then take the hammer handles with rope, and attach rope to O ring, adjust length to suit, then tie off.

I like the rope to be long enough so that handle end is hanging down past O ring, and maybe a finger to spare, so it will swing freely.

These go above the hock, one on each side. Or just one on if you want. They will not hurt horse, and horse can lay down in them. They will pop horse if he kicks out, they won't if he is just moving around. The beauty of this is, since no human is near end that is offending, the horse feels like he is being punished by himself, and you obviously have tremendous powers, as he got into trouble, and you weren't near his hindquarters. You can also get fleece covers/or make them to slide over dog collars.

The chains, go around the pastern, and have small chains attached, and they work the same way, to dissuade horse from kicking.

Can also use an old trick, but takes a lot more commitment, and time. This is something I have used on an incorrigible kicker, one that the kicking chains would not slow down, he was just bull headed and had gotten his way too many years, and was aggravating to be around.

In an open stall area, like a U shaped stall, hang a tire, at about hock height. Have tire so that it can be raised and lowered at will, as may have to leave it up for a while. Go in and do whatever it is that precipitates the kicking, when horse kicks, go outside, lower tire, and let it gently swing and bump horse in hindquarters, he will kick, of course, just let him kick until he gets it out of his system, every time he kicks, the tire bumps him, you are expending no energy, he is the one doing all the work, and the tire darn shore isn't getting "tired".

You can also do same thing with water hose, shooting jet of water at hind legs, but that is definitely better in summer. If he stops kicking, no water, if he kicks, he gets tickled. He will learn very quickly that he is wasting energy, and since generally horses are not into wasting theirs, they will stop.

Another thing that I think is also key, is don't chatter at horse, very few words, no laughter, no hollering, or anything. These lessons need to be conducted in quiet firmness, as these need to be very matter of fact.

The purpose of these is to expend the horses' energy, not yours, and you can stay calm, as if horse perceives that you are not upset, that really confuses them, as it must mean this is commonplace. And it also perplexes them, as obviously you have as yet untapped powers, it teaches them, without them thinking the only time they get any training is when you are around.

[Rosie12]

Originally Posted by meljean

The kicking chains will help both while wearing and when they are not on. It basically lets the horse punish themselves, if they don't kick, they don't get the repercussions.

You can make a very inexpensive set, using hammer handles, dog collars, I like the leather ones, but can use nylon, and a metal O ring, and soft cotton rope, or the kind that is part nylon? that you can burn ends to finish off.

Saw off the part of the handle that you would attach hammer head to, so it is flat across, sand it until smooth, then drill a hole about 1 to 1 1/2 inches down from narrow end. Take about six inches of the rope, and run one end through the hole. Take O ring, and attach it to the leash ring on dog collar, pinch shut with pliers, then take the hammer handles with rope, and attach rope to O ring, adjust length to suit, then tie off.

I like the rope to be long enough so that handle end is hanging down past O ring, and maybe a finger to spare, so it will swing freely.

These go above the hock, one on each side. Or just one on if you want. They will not hurt horse, and horse can lay down in them. They will pop horse if he kicks out, they won't if he is just moving around. The beauty of this is, since no human is near end that is offending, the horse feels like he is being punished by himself, and you obviously have tremendous powers, as he got into trouble, and you weren't near his hindquarters. You can also get fleece covers/or make them to slide over dog collars.

The chains, go around the pastern, and have small chains attached, and they work the same way, to dissuade horse from kicking.

So it's something connected to the horse that they can feel? So...let's look at it from a horses perspective...

"Hm. I kicked out and got a sting! That wasn't nice. I should quit."
A month goes by.
"Well, I havn't kicked in a while, let's test this again." Kicks out, doesn't get a pop. "I can kick!" So you put the kicking chains on him again. "Ow! I got stung again! Ok, I'll quit."
Maybe another month. Same thing happens. Almost another (maybe two) month(s) before:
"Let's see. When I kick out, I get these things put on me. SO...Feeling things on my back legs = Don't kick. NOT feeling things on my back legs = Free TO kick!!! So all I have to do is wait for them to take it off and BAM! I can kick all I want!"

Whereas if this horse was in a herd and kicked out because another horse walked behind him and the horse he kicked at was above him, you know what would happen? KICK. This horse would get an immediate and swift kick in the hiney right back. Depending on WHO he kicked at, he'd probably get run off from the food and wouldn't be allowed back until everyone else was done.

IMO, the better and longer-lasting method is the one horses use themselves. I know people can't kick horses with the same effect, but that's what crops, whips, sticks, hats, gloves, whathaveyou are for.

Just another angle.

Originally Posted by meljean

In an open stall area, like a U shaped stall, hang a tire, at about hock height. Have tire so that it can be raised and lowered at will, as may have to leave it up for a while. Go in and do whatever it is that precipitates the kicking, when horse kicks, go outside, lower tire, and let it gently swing and bump horse in hindquarters, he will kick, of course, just let him kick until he gets it out of his system, every time he kicks, the tire bumps him, you are expending no energy, he is the one doing all the work, and the tire darn shore isn't getting "tired".

Well, what if the horse likes the tire? What if he kicks it, it bumps him in the rear, he kicks it again and watches, does it again and begins to think, "Hey! This is fun! So whenever I kick my human I get to play with a tire????"

Granted, a majority of horses probably don't like tires. But I know more then a few that love to play with them.

Simply another angle.

Originally Posted by meljean

You can also do same thing with water hose, shooting jet of water at hind legs, but that is definitely better in summer. If he stops kicking, no water, if he kicks, he gets tickled. He will learn very quickly that he is wasting energy, and since generally horses are not into wasting theirs, they will stop.

This should work...unless they like getting wet. Then it's the same thing with the tire. "Oh! So when I kick I get to get in the water!! I should kick at my human more often!"

Again, a different angle to see it from.

[MissHopesMom]

I think Rosie and I are on the same wavelength - with trying to rectify the problem by changing the behaviour and mentality behind the action, not just the action itself.

I really like the method that I mentioned above, the one my trainer used with my sister's gelding. She let him know that SHE is the boss, not him, and can use his "punishment" of being worked to address other behavioural issues we may have to deal with.

I would also like to add in that the gelding we have has not offered to turn his bum to ANYONE since the trainer worked with him in this manner; he either stands and waits, facing his handler, or comes to them, also with his face towards them.

ETA: His "punishment" was actually only to be shooed away from her, and asked to keep his little hiney moving for approx 3-4 circles around the small paddock, before he got the opportunity to stand and behave... if he wasn't going to cooperate, well that little hiney could keep going another 3-4 circles. But was always given the opportunity to do the right thing and stand quietly.

[GraceandThomas]

Originally Posted by Luvs Phin

How long have you owned him/how old is he?

Ive owned him for about a year now. He is 8, but he is still green.

Originally Posted by MissHopesMom

Just curious, I would like to ask the OP - is when the horse eating the only time he's disrespectful of humans? Maybe not flat out dangerous habits like kicking, but things like being pushy when leading?

Its the only time that I have ever heard of him being disrespectful to other people, but hes doesnt do it with me. Two days ago I was told that he attacked one of the workers for no reason, but I dont believe that because hes never done that to anyone, whether he liked them or not. Hes not pushy when leading. When I got him, I was told to use a chain because he was really pushy, but once he hasnt been pushy for months. The only time I use it now is when he gets his feet done, but even then its just over his nose, I dont actually have to use it.