[chillebrand]

My daughter has had her horse, Missy, for about 6 months. The previous owner said she responded well to any bit and was neck reined. He trained her using Clinton Anderson's methods which I know very little about. I am trying to learn but...
My daughter's friend rides Missy with just a halter and they do just fine. My daughter rides Missy with a curb bit and Missy seems to be fighting her the whole time. We opted for the curb bit because it was legal in the 4H horse shows and I didn't know what else to use. I am not an experienced horse person but it looks to me that Missy is uncomfortable because my daughter pulls too hard on the reins even after I tell her to back off. It makes the experience unpleasant for everyone, Missy included. Any suggestions? Both the horse and my daughter are 12.

[Imperial_Horse]

to be honest i would use a nice snaffle untill your little girl learns to soften her hands. when she learns that, go back to the curb and continue with shows.

[JBandRio]

If you trust the horse totally, and have something like a round pen or a way to block off half a ring, then if the horse truly does neck rein well, etc, use the bridle but tie the reins to the bit with a piece of sewing thread (and not the good kind! ). If your dtr pulls too hard, the thread will break, showing her she's got too much hand.

You say you got the bit because it's legal for 4-H - does your dtr have an instructor?

Find things around the house that weigh 6oz or so. Have your dtr hold them, eyes closed. 6oz in one hand, 2lb in the other (or 5lb). Make her FEEL the difference. Tell her 6oz is more than enough weight she should be feeling in her hands.

[AAB Cowboy]

I think that you have noticed something very valid. I am assuming you are riding western by your reference to the curb bit.

If so, it is not a very comfortable bit, neither is a snaffle, or most bit bridles. On western style, when you pull back on the reins, you clamp down on the space between the bit and the chin strap. Try it, place your palm on the chinstrap, face down, and pull on the bridle as you would when riding. This represents the place where the lower lip and tongue of a horse would be. You might be suprised how much pressure you can get.

Snaffles as not much better. They are legendary for being kinder and softer because they hinge. That is not true, and is just a myth. When you pull on the snaffle, it not only clamps on the bottom, but it also fold in half, right on the horses sensitive mouth. It just causes pain, and that in turn makes the horse less willing and obedient.

I would try some other type of bridle. I personally use a Noavel, which is a bit-less bridle, and I have seen marked improvement on our horses.

[chillebrand]

Thanks for the ideas. I had actually consider the snaffle bit after doing some reading in this month's horse and rider magazine but I needed conformation that I was on the right track.

And the thread idea is great. I trust the horse enough to do that (in the round pen of course) but I am not sure my daughter does.

[Rhythm 'n Blues]

Originally Posted by AAB Cowboy

Snaffles as not much better. They are legendary for being kinder and softer because they hinge. That is not true, and is just a myth. When you pull on the snaffle, it not only clamps on the bottom, but it also fold in half, right on the horses sensitive mouth. It just causes pain, and that in turn makes the horse less willing and obedient.

AAB: not ALL snaffles work in the same manner. Your above statement only speaks of a single jointed snaffle.

Please...let not make blanket statements, snaffles are wonderful when you find the "right one" and ride with it appropriately!

[prairienights]

By "legal" do you mean that's what she can get away with, or is that the only thing she can show in?

I suggest first checking for soreness in the mouth. If he rides fine with a rope halter, then maybe it's something in the mouth that's causing discomfort. Have a vet check to see if teeth need to be floated or anything.

Other than that, I think it's probably just harsh hands. I definitely support the thread idea, but if the horse doesn't give to bit pressure anyways, then that issue needs to be worked out first.

Here's a suggestion I gave somebody whose horse wasn't giving to bit pressure in another thread.

I suggest working on some lateral flexion. At a halt, hold the right rein to your hip and just hold it there for awhile. Don't increase the pressure or anything. He may stick his nose out, he may give you his nose but move his feet, whatever. Do *not* let go of the rein until his feet aren't moving, his nose is pointed towards you, and he gives signs of being relaxed (relaxed neck, a sigh, w/e), when he does do all this, release immediately. Do this a few times on each side until you can just tug on the rope and he'll give you his nose without fighting it. Eventually, you can have him hold it for a moment (giving you his nose and standing relaxed for a moment or two) then release.

Now, cue him to move (think slow, just a few quiet steps, at first you don't want him to build up a lot of momentum) and after about three steps, pull that rein back to your hip. You may have to hold it until he stops moving his feet or until his nose is in and he's relaxed; again, release immediately. It may feel like you're starting over, but do the same steps until he can move a few steps and then stop immediately and give you his nose when you pull one rein to your hip.

Eventually, you can walk maybe 20 feet and pull and stop. Once he gets *really* really good at this, try it at a trot.

This may take several sessions, and it may feel like you're starting over sometimes. It is an invaluable thing for them to know though, and you really can't do too much lateral flexion work like this. It supples them and focuses their attention.

I suggest you watch from the ground and *MAKE SURE* she is not pulling on the reins. It should be a very relaxed, constant pressure. Just take up a bit of rein, put your hand on your hip and leave it there. If she tugs, it'll just start a fight. Then, from the ground, you'll be able to see the exact moment when he's not moving, looks relaxed, and has given her even a tiny bit of his nose. This may take awhile, and he may go around in circles.

Also, horses can't buck if they're reined in a circle, so don't worry about that.

[prairienights]

Here are a few videos. Just do a search for "lateral flexion" on youtube

Start on the ground

YouTube - Rocky & Stephen Freeman, Lateral Flexion

This guy explains it pretty well (he's kinda weird, I know, lol)

YouTube - Hondo Lateral Flexion

Here's more or less what it should look like when the horse knows it. I dunno, but it looks like this guy has kind of heavy hands, may just be the angle or something

YouTube - Lateral flexion 1

[sorrell]

With my riding students, I would have them hold a pencil in their mouths and then put pressure on the pencil like a bit using tring tied to it.
They learned quickly that very little pressure could be easily felt.
We then rigged a rope around chest height and let them practice guiding the person horse with rein pressure and went through the mechanics of neck reining and head carriage and such.
When they could feel and see the results of hard hands, they quickly learned to soften.
They learned that they should not use the reins to balance themselves as well.
With smaller kids, I will take the bits off the horses and just let them ride with reins snapped onto the halter, but when they feel for themselves how harsh a bit can be (don't be cruel and make it hurt of course) they understand more quickly why they should not do something.

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by AAB Cowboy

Snaffles as not much better. They are legendary for being kinder and softer because they hinge. That is not true, and is just a myth.

Curb bits can hinge too. This makes the main difference between a snaffle and a curb bit the leverage. Leverage by default is harsher. But used properly, neither bit is more harsh than the other.

When you pull on the snaffle, it not only clamps on the bottom, but it also fold in half, right on the horses sensitive mouth. It just causes pain, and that in turn makes the horse less willing and obedient.

You really should read up on the different types of snaffles and how they really work Because there is no leverage, a snaffle cannot increase the tension on the chin strap. When you pull back on the direct-contact snaffle, you are by default also pulling the chin strap away from the chin.

There is no doubt that some horses absolutely prefer a bitless alternative, whether that is a hackamore, a side pull, or a "true" bitless bridle.