Horse abuse by top Dressage trainer caught on tape...

[PiaffePony0412]

This is a few months old, but there have been some relevant updates (and kind of my own rant).

Here's the video, (takes a while to load, give it time)it's in German but basically:

This woman has made headlines multiple times in Germany for her cruelty, but this is the first time it was more than a 'he said/she said'.
She is only known as Christine W. (I think her last name is Wels) in the press.
She basically got videod beating one of her horses to a pulp and the video was forwarded to St Georg magazine. The end result was a court case that was very widely publicized.
She isn't allowed to go near horses for 2 years, so she simply packed her bags and went across the boarder to Denmark where German laws don't apply.
I was told by a friend who spoke on a German forum to a former groom of hers- and she was directly responsible for a horse having to be put down (stress founder). There were reports of horses actually so terrified of her that they would start to uncontrollably defecate as soon as they were led out of their stalls....
The fowl part about this story is that she was/is a highly successful rider/trainer (she has the Gold Riding Medal in Germany)and people still sent their horses to her to be trained and defended her in court because her horses were successful
I think this is another nail in the coffin for competitive dressage and the inappropriate judging...

The reason I brought it up is because another 'top' dressage rider overseas is going to court for the same 'training methods'. Not as well known in the US, but still somebody who shouldn't have gotten to where they are with what they do to their horses. Harmony I think not.

This goes to show you that JUST because someone wins all the time doesn't mean anything about how great they are.
This BS goes on more than you think in the competitive world and it's about time we start digging beneath the surface. The judging standards have really started sagging towards what's 'in' the past few years and it's making me hate the sport I love so much.
STOP giving pairs who aren't connected behind 80%
STOP giving pairs whose horse's tails are wringing constantly good scores on submission.
STOP giving a sloppy young rider a good score on a push button horse you've seen do Young Riders 2 times before under someone else. (I've seen that happen)

I've had enough. The judging enables this circus to go on. It's not just in the higher levels either... stop giving better scores to warmbloods when they are incorrect simply because they have a big trot. On the flip side stop giving kids on their thoroughbreds unfairly lower scores when they are technically on the dot, but the horse has a thoroughbred trot!

Most of you know that I, while very much a believer in classical dressage, know that's not what makes a successful show horse. They want that extra zest in competition, that extra flash, etc., it is NOT all about being correct, but it shouldn't have gotten so far that we are FORGIVING incorrectness because of flashiness. I have seen riders who use hyperflexion and their horses DO consent and perform happy, and I've seen ones that DON'T.

I have stood up to defend Anky quite a few times on this board when people call her an animal abuser, because she is NOT, however, she TOO has been over scored far too many a time. And I'm just as tired of it.

It all boils down to blind worship. This Christine woman had people DEFEND her in court. Defending that behavior because she won some ribbons?! Ridiculous!!!
Please, I'm begging you, learn and judge for yourself- don't think someone is good because they ride an expensive nice horse and win, or they ride in a double, or even if they win a gold medal! Everyone should seek out the kind of relationship they want with their horse, and find someone who can help them towards whatever success they desire. Don't play the game.
I learned that the hard way.


I realize this was a bit excessive, and most people on here WOULDN'T be here unless they loved their horses, but I know what blind desire to win is like too- and you can suck up a lot of BS for a while....

-Piaffepony0412

[stephanie]

Wow. I always hate hearing about this kind of case. It's so sad

[Keerah]

That's horrible.. Ya know.. I don't even know who all these famous people are in horsemanship. Like in the different diseplins. And training a horse that way is NOT acceptable.

I'd rather train my horse with love and praise, than with fear. It's unfair to them, and extremely unacceptable. Sure, sometimes you've got to use a forceful foot, but not to the extent such as this.

Ooo.. I'm so mad right now.. I mean.. I've hit Keerah before (Because of biting or kicking. Not because she's acting out like a normal mare. I use force with force. Like a horse).. And yeah.. I feel horrid after that, and I hope she learns her lessons. Or, I use my lead rope like a tail. I don't even lunge Keerah with a whip anymore because of her fear.. I just snap my fingers at her and she does just as well..

But to whip a horse until he/she is bleeding? Doing that kind of damage to the knees, underbelly and mouth?! UHNG!

[imjustjoking22]

That poor baby

I have flicked my horse with the whip under saddle when he has bucked, but I can't even imagine wielding one with so much force that it broke their skin- not to mention the lunging video, where the horse isn't even doing anything wrong and is just repeatedly beaten. How horrific!

[mapmackey]

STOP giving pairs who aren't connected behind 80%
STOP giving pairs whose horse's tails are wringing constantly good scores on submission.
STOP giving a sloppy young rider a good score on a push button horse you've seen do Young Riders 2 times before under someone else. (I've seen that happen)

I've had enough. The judging enables this circus to go on. It's not just in the higher levels either... stop giving better scores to warmbloods when they are incorrect simply because they have a big trot. On the flip side stop giving kids on their thoroughbreds unfairly lower scores when they are technically on the dot, but the horse has a thoroughbred trot!

I agree with your entire post. But the above bold bears repeating!! I am very low level, but even I can see the same situations. And they happen over and over again. I don't have anything against warmbloods, but I love to see other horses and ponies compete as well. And to have a pair that is very correct score lower than a "big bay" horse and rider based mostly on the fact that the horse is in style currently really bothers me.

[Trace]

I know nothing about dressage - except that I LOVE to watch it.

If I had to go by that videao alone I would judge that as extreme abuse.

Please educate me - what is she TRYING to make that horse do??????

[Fox Glove]

If I may, it does not always take " a winning season" for someone to have people so devoted to them, they are blind to what they are doing.

Now this is about a cat "sanctuary" in my neck of the woods.

This woman has commited unbelivable acts of cruelness, abuse, and neglect.

She has a burial pit, so large, it could be seen from google earth. They unearthed hundreds or cat remains.

There were hundreds of dead cats on the property, and in freezers in her garage.

It was the most henious act of animal neglect I have ever witnessed, and I have seen some horrible things in my days.

This woman has people pouring money into her defense, she has the court room filled with her defenders. There are signs supporting this monster all over her town.

Even when in court the has pictures of these cats that died, then were tossed in freezers, you could see the sores from the calicivirus, the distened and ulcerated eyes. Her followers sat there unmoved, then made excuses to the press of how those cats were planted .

It is not always ribbons and winning that gives these people a following.

Sociopaths are often chiasmatic, charming and cunning.

I can not bring myself to look at the video, as being involved with the above stated case has me raw, and upset enough.

The sad fact is, this goes on where ever there are animals present and a dollar to me made.

I am glad you are bringing this to the attenion of people, that is the best way to get support, to prevent these people from doing this to any animal again.

[ryu2832]

STOP giving pairs who aren't connected behind 80%
STOP giving pairs whose horse's tails are wringing constantly good scores on submission.
STOP giving a sloppy young rider a good score on a push button horse you've seen do Young Riders 2 times before under someone else. (I've seen that happen)

Show organizers need to stop hiring judges who score horses doing the above. I agree 100%.

[guess who]

I didn't watch the video. I won't. But I totally agree with this thread.

I love my dressage, I really do. I think all horses should know a bit of dressage, and I love the benefits it provides to both horse and rider.

The problem is as you've said. There are too many judges out there who'll give high marks to horses who move well, but don't peform technically, especially at lower levels where there are a lot of pairs lacking in technical correctness. I've seen kids doing the most basic walk-trot tests on extremely fancy warmbloods that i KNOW full well are capable of performing at high levels, but the kids just aren't doing it. No matter, we'll score them high anyway, becuase hey- the horse moves nicely.

Dressage is meant to be about harmony. Beating your horse and forcing them to comply with you is not harmony. That's abuse. That's unfair treatment. If the horse is unhappy, you have to mark them down on submission, harmony, and ease of acceptance and so on.

To be honest, if the kids are sloppy but the horse is push button and goes well, that still warrants a good mark. It annoys me. But thats the way it is. However, in these cases, the rider NEEDS to be marked down in the rider section. If the horse performs the movement well, it deserves a good mark, but if the kid is sloppy, then give them a low rider mark. Comment on their form in the judges comment section.

The other big problem is bias. Against unknown competitors, against certain breeds of horses, against those who don't have inside friends/family/contacts on committees, selection panels, judging panels or whatever it might be..
I don't know. And I know I'll never be the one to do anything about it, because I won't give up competing. I should, but..it wouldn't do an ounce of good.

Overscoring is a huge problem, for all kinds of reasons. It annoys me as much as it does you, piaffepony. Overscoring because people are well known, or because they have contacts is completely unfair. As is scoring warmbloods highly, and other breeds lower purely because they aren't big, flashy movers.

Anyway, I've been rambling. I will be quiet now. That's my opinion. Its not very well articulated, but there it is

[glideride]

I did not watch either, this sort of thing is horrible and un called for!