Hoof Dillema

Asfaloth · 08-03-2008, 07:59 PM

Eventing in boots is possible.
http://www.easycareinc.com/education..._barefoot.aspx

I have worked with a TB that was exactly as you describe. All of the experts(vets and farriers) said the horse could not ever go without shoes. In fact they recommended wide web shoes with pads.

But he was destroying his hooves with pulling shoes frequently. So the owner decided to ask the farrier to try to take him barefoot in boots. The farrier actually got angry. Told her that she was being cruel to her horse. Told her that what she was doing was wrong and would fail. Se finally approached me and asked if I would try it.

It has been two years since his shoes were pulled off. He is sound. He rarely wears boots any more.

In the beginning we did boot him. In fact we booted him every time he left his stall. We booted him in the pasture on the trail and anyplace that would not be soft or could cause bruising to his painfully thin soles.

After a few month he could go to pasture without boots. After a few more he could work on soft ground without them.

It did indeed take just over a year for him to get out of the boots all together. He has not had them on so far this year even once.

It is possible. It can be done. Even the "experts" don't know it all.

This TB is now a trail horse. Not just a go down a wide smooth path tail horse. A up and down steep slippery hills, over and under trees and trough brush and rocky streams. For us trail riding is no relaxing walk in a pretty park. It's an event. And this OTT race horse with terrible hooves is out there handling it like an old pro. With not a bad step along the way.

IIIBarsV · 08-04-2008, 09:45 AM

My one gelding had his shoes pulled and basically had no hoofwall worth speaking of to nail to in order to put shoes back on. So instead, we kept him barefoot and I started trimming him. He came sounder and sounder, hoof quality improved, hoofwall started growing and thickening, frogs expanded... there were a ton of positive benefits that would not have otherwise happened if the horse had remained in shoes. 8-9 months later, he was sound on soft surfaces but toewalking on gravel/concrete. With enough hoof to work with now, the decision was made (but not by me) to put him back in shoes with leather rim pads.

Sometimes going barefoot for a while (even if not permanently) can give you good benefits- healthier hooves that stop chipping and cracking, stronger hoof growth. A shoe only works if you can keep it on the horse in a correct manner.

I agree with Dawn- if the horse was acting like he was dying while walking across pebbles/gravel with his shoes on, then you've got a problem. Probably a hoofknife-related one. If your farrier uses the knife on a horse that he KNOWS has thin soles, you're fighting a endless cycle and the horse won't grow a thicker, tougher sole because he's not getting the chance to.

MIEventer · 08-04-2008, 10:52 AM

No Hoof Knife is ever used on my TB. My ferrier trims his feet up, angles, and then trims. Then he forges the shoe to fit the foot. He uses the pincher things to shorten the hoof and then a file. That's it. He does nothing to his soles or frog.

My TB can go around with no pads on. Just if he steps on a pebble, he'll limp around as though he's going to be dead lame forever. I usually have to walk him out of it and then he'll be fine - but the way he acts when this does happen, has me f.r.e.a.k.i.n.g out. And he has had pads on his fronts for eon's.

Now another thought. He has been at a barn for close to 5 years. Where he was stalled up to 13 hours a day. Now he is out at a farm on 15 acres of pasture - could that of been an aid to thin weak soles being in that stall for so long?

I've pulled the 1 shoe off. And I put his Davis Cavello boot on and duct taped it to secure it for when he is out in pasture.

I'm just worried that if he has had shoes on pretty much all his life. Raced on the track, etc, etc, etc, etc up to the age of 16 with me - I fear that there is going to be no more hoof to put a shoe on. And if his feet are so dry and crumbly now, what is the point of paying to have more shoes put on again?

I think I just might have to cancel my shows for the rest of the summer and have his shoes pulled. But there lay's another problem - is I have no money for boots and there is no way I'll let him go out without something on those feet because I do ride hard at lessons and I ride 4/5 days a week and I hack up to 3 hours when we go out.

I do not want to deal with absessed feet because I turned him out with no protection on those soles.

My Ferrier will be out Thursday. I've cancelled my lesson for tomorrow as well.

I think I'm in a pickle.

PeggySue · 08-04-2008, 10:58 AM

a healthy hoof is a cobination of things

1) diet
2) proper trim
3) enviroment

if any of the above is not right the hoof will not be healthy ... we can control 2 of the 3 for the most part nobody controls mother nature

Asfaloth · 08-04-2008, 11:01 AM

Raise your hand if you didn't know that already.

MIEventer · 08-04-2008, 11:03 AM

*raises hand*

Asfaloth · 08-04-2008, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIEventer

No Hoof Knife is ever used on my TB. My ferrier trims his feet up, angles, and then trims. Then he forges the shoe to fit the foot. He uses the pincher things to shorten the hoof and then a file. That's it. He does nothing to his soles or frog.

It is not using a knife. It is how the knife is used.

My TB can go around with no pads on. Just if he steps on a pebble, he'll limp around as though he's going to be dead lame forever. I usually have to walk him out of it and then he'll be fine - but the way he acts when this does happen, has me f.r.e.a.k.i.n.g out. And he has had pads on his fronts for eon's.

Yep he has thin soles this is going to happen. You need to protect him from this. I see below you have taken those steps.

Now another thought. He has been at a barn for close to 5 years. Where he was stalled up to 13 hours a day. Now he is out at a farm on 15 acres of pasture - could that of been an aid to thin weak soles being in that stall for so long?
Part of it yes. Shoes and pads as well. What happens with anything not used? It atrophies and weakens. A sole that is off the ground, padded and stall kept is not going to be as thick as one that is on the ground and working.

I've pulled the 1 shoe off. And I put his Davis Cavello boot on and duct taped it to secure it for when he is out in pasture.

Good. Keep doing that. Do it with both feet not just one. If he had shoes on his hinds or if they are sore do it with all four feet.

I'm just worried that if he has had shoes on pretty much all his life. Raced on the track, etc, etc, etc, etc up to the age of 16 with me - I fear that there is going to be no more hoof to put a shoe on. And if his feet are so dry and crumbly now, what is the point of paying to have more shoes put on again?
I have taken 25 year old horses out of shoes. The TB I mentioned is 11. Raced for six years. Rescued as a starvation case.

I think I just might have to cancel my shows for the rest of the summer and have his shoes pulled. But there lay's another problem - is I have no money for boots and there is no way I'll let him go out without something on those feet because I do ride hard at lessons and I ride 4/5 days a week and I hack up to 3 hours when we go out.

Try Ebay for used boots. Also look at the bargain bin on eascareinc.com

You may need to stop showing for a bit until you get him settled. You can ride in boots though. Once he is comfortable in them I would actually tell you to ride him. Excercise is very important to healing hooves.

I do not want to deal with absessed feet because I turned him out with no protection on those soles.
Healing feet do sometimes access but yes he need s to be in boots for pasture.

My Ferrier will be out Thursday. I've cancelled my lesson for tomorrow as well.

Sorry to hear about the lessons. I know you are doing your best to be a good horse mom. I wish you all the best in healing him and I'm certainly available to try to answer questions along the way. PM me any time.

I think I'm in a pickle.

Pickles are quite tasty on burgers.

No really sometimes what seems bad now will not seem bad when it has passed. It will all work out. You'll see. My friend was beside her self over her TB. In tears daily and she was unable to ride for a long time. Actually I let her ride my horse in the mean time so she did get to ride some. But today she is just happy she went through with it. That was her choice. We all have to make some hard choices at times.

JBandRio · 08-04-2008, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeggySue

a healthy hoof is a cobination of things

1) diet
2) proper trim
3) enviroment

if any of the above is not right the hoof will not be healthy ... we can control 2 of the 3 for the most part nobody controls mother nature

You can do a lot to improve a horse's living environment if you own your own place. If you don't, you're SOL most of the time though.

You forgot another thing Peggy

The forced work. Horses generally are one-sided, and unless they are conformationally blessed, they can tend to, as the years go on, become more and more lopsided, and if that is the case, this can negatively affect the feet. Working the horse, with the goal of straightening him such that his natural tendency, out in the pasture, is less lopsided, can do wonders for the feet. Working out the kinks, so to speak, can cause him to take his full, natural strides, which does wonders for the feet

IIIBarsV · 08-04-2008, 11:16 AM

Soooooo.... there is the idea of hoof casting... or Vettec's new "sole guard". I've never tried hoof casting myself, but it might be worth looking into and giving a try. It's meant as a temporary measure, lasts three weeks... you can ride with it too.

Plastic glue on shoes is also another idea instead of nailing or booting. They can last about as long as a normal shoe I believe, less if you're riding on gravel/asphalt regularly. Talk to your farrier about them.

Conditioning the feet is probably not the best idea. You need to harden them up and make them less prone to splitting, peeling, etc. Conditioning can make them softer.

Here's another idea: If you have access to a barn, put your horse in the barn during the day when flies are bad, and turn him out at night.

PeggySue · 08-04-2008, 11:22 AM

OPPPS I knew I was forgetting something... LOL

even when you have your own place you can only do so much to change what mother nature does LOL

08-03-2008, 07:59 PM	#11
Asfaloth Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Pennsylvania, south of Pittsburgh Posts: 1,025 Images: 36	Eventing in boots is possible. http://www.easycareinc.com/education..._barefoot.aspx I have worked with a TB that was exactly as you describe. All of the experts(vets and farriers) said the horse could not ever go without shoes. In fact they recommended wide web shoes with pads. But he was destroying his hooves with pulling shoes frequently. So the owner decided to ask the farrier to try to take him barefoot in boots. The farrier actually got angry. Told her that she was being cruel to her horse. Told her that what she was doing was wrong and would fail. Se finally approached me and asked if I would try it. It has been two years since his shoes were pulled off. He is sound. He rarely wears boots any more. In the beginning we did boot him. In fact we booted him every time he left his stall. We booted him in the pasture on the trail and anyplace that would not be soft or could cause bruising to his painfully thin soles. After a few month he could go to pasture without boots. After a few more he could work on soft ground without them. It did indeed take just over a year for him to get out of the boots all together. He has not had them on so far this year even once. It is possible. It can be done. Even the "experts" don't know it all. This TB is now a trail horse. Not just a go down a wide smooth path tail horse. A up and down steep slippery hills, over and under trees and trough brush and rocky streams. For us trail riding is no relaxing walk in a pretty park. It's an event. And this OTT race horse with terrible hooves is out there handling it like an old pro. With not a bad step along the way. __________________ Happiness is Owning and Riding Somthing Extraordinary

08-04-2008, 09:45 AM	#12
IIIBarsV Senior Member+ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,596 Images: 27	My one gelding had his shoes pulled and basically had no hoofwall worth speaking of to nail to in order to put shoes back on. So instead, we kept him barefoot and I started trimming him. He came sounder and sounder, hoof quality improved, hoofwall started growing and thickening, frogs expanded... there were a ton of positive benefits that would not have otherwise happened if the horse had remained in shoes. 8-9 months later, he was sound on soft surfaces but toewalking on gravel/concrete. With enough hoof to work with now, the decision was made (but not by me) to put him back in shoes with leather rim pads. Sometimes going barefoot for a while (even if not permanently) can give you good benefits- healthier hooves that stop chipping and cracking, stronger hoof growth. A shoe only works if you can keep it on the horse in a correct manner. I agree with Dawn- if the horse was acting like he was dying while walking across pebbles/gravel with his shoes on, then you've got a problem. Probably a hoofknife-related one. If your farrier uses the knife on a horse that he KNOWS has thin soles, you're fighting a endless cycle and the horse won't grow a thicker, tougher sole because he's not getting the chance to. __________________ Three Bars The Fifth Wish I'd Get Lucky Chipped In Stone Zip Code Bay B Suns Eternal Flame How can you ride in order to make your horse's job easier for them?

08-04-2008, 11:01 AM	#15
Asfaloth Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Pennsylvania, south of Pittsburgh Posts: 1,025 Images: 36	Raise your hand if you didn't know that already. __________________ Happiness is Owning and Riding Somthing Extraordinary

08-04-2008, 11:16 AM	#19
IIIBarsV Senior Member+ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,596 Images: 27	Soooooo.... there is the idea of hoof casting... or Vettec's new "sole guard". I've never tried hoof casting myself, but it might be worth looking into and giving a try. It's meant as a temporary measure, lasts three weeks... you can ride with it too. Plastic glue on shoes is also another idea instead of nailing or booting. They can last about as long as a normal shoe I believe, less if you're riding on gravel/asphalt regularly. Talk to your farrier about them. Conditioning the feet is probably not the best idea. You need to harden them up and make them less prone to splitting, peeling, etc. Conditioning can make them softer. Here's another idea: If you have access to a barn, put your horse in the barn during the day when flies are bad, and turn him out at night. __________________ Three Bars The Fifth Wish I'd Get Lucky Chipped In Stone Zip Code Bay B Suns Eternal Flame How can you ride in order to make your horse's job easier for them?

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08-04-2008, 10:52 AM	#13
MIEventer Senior Member+ Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,253	No Hoof Knife is ever used on my TB. My ferrier trims his feet up, angles, and then trims. Then he forges the shoe to fit the foot. He uses the pincher things to shorten the hoof and then a file. That's it. He does nothing to his soles or frog. My TB can go around with no pads on. Just if he steps on a pebble, he'll limp around as though he's going to be dead lame forever. I usually have to walk him out of it and then he'll be fine - but the way he acts when this does happen, has me f.r.e.a.k.i.n.g out. And he has had pads on his fronts for eon's. Now another thought. He has been at a barn for close to 5 years. Where he was stalled up to 13 hours a day. Now he is out at a farm on 15 acres of pasture - could that of been an aid to thin weak soles being in that stall for so long? I've pulled the 1 shoe off. And I put his Davis Cavello boot on and duct taped it to secure it for when he is out in pasture. I'm just worried that if he has had shoes on pretty much all his life. Raced on the track, etc, etc, etc, etc up to the age of 16 with me - I fear that there is going to be no more hoof to put a shoe on. And if his feet are so dry and crumbly now, what is the point of paying to have more shoes put on again? I think I just might have to cancel my shows for the rest of the summer and have his shoes pulled. But there lay's another problem - is I have no money for boots and there is no way I'll let him go out without something on those feet because I do ride hard at lessons and I ride 4/5 days a week and I hack up to 3 hours when we go out. I do not want to deal with absessed feet because I turned him out with no protection on those soles. My Ferrier will be out Thursday. I've cancelled my lesson for tomorrow as well. I think I'm in a pickle.

08-04-2008, 11:03 AM	#16
MIEventer Senior Member+ Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,253	raises hand