Hoof critiques please...

IIIBarsV · 06-20-2008, 11:37 AM

The heels are not underrun at all. Toes are long though. If it's only been 5 days, I would say the trimmer is being too conservative and needs to apply a bigger roll on the hoofwall. The barely-visible roll that is there will not really get you results because in a couple weeks there will pressure continuing the flaring again. In other words, it's just pretty much maintaining the hoof as it is without really changing anything, good or bad.

accphotography · 06-20-2008, 11:40 AM

What causes you to believe the toes are long? Not challenging, just want to see what you see.

ACC

accphotography · 06-20-2008, 11:55 AM

Here are some pics from January for reference:

Lacy: http://www.accphotography.com/newweb/lacy20

Classy: http://www.accphotography.com/newweb/classy6

ACC

Dawn · 06-20-2008, 06:03 PM

At 5 days post trim, I would be incredibly unhappy.

Dawn · 06-20-2008, 06:05 PM

I see the same basic issues in January. But they've actually gotten worse from then till now. At least on Lacy. I'll have to go back and look at Classy's current photos and compare.

Dawn · 06-20-2008, 06:07 PM

On Classy I don't see as much regression. But I don't see any 'real' improvement on the obvious issues at hand either.

I don't know if you're trimming them yourself or not. And I don't want to say anything hurtful or discouraging if you are. But whoever is trimming them needs to take a 'reality check' so to speak about what's actually going on with these feet.

Dawn · 06-20-2008, 07:43 PM

I know the question wasn't directed towards me, so I apologize in advance. But this is why I would confidently say that the toes are too long. I actually think I was quite generous with this line. But this is the line the toe should follow based on the new growth from the top of the foot.

IIIBarsV · 06-20-2008, 08:02 PM

Dawn's editted picture is what I'm seeing... the flaring makes the toe longer than it should be. How long depends on the rest of the hoof. The way Dawn has drawn in the line which follows the line of the hoof just below the coronet band is a good way to tell how you're doing in terms of toe position and length.

Length is kind of a figurative term here... relative only to the hoof individually. Some horses when not flared have longer toes, others might have little short toes.

The key here is the flaring. If the flare was not present, the toe would be shorter.

accphotography · 06-20-2008, 08:36 PM

No I am not trimming them myself. I am willing to accept that she is not doing the best job she could be doing. Unfortunately I have been looking for over a year and she's the best of what I've found. While I admit it's not the best job I have seen I can NOT understand how someone could think they were actually better in January.

The line that was drawn on that photo is highly inaccurate imo. I realize that people who do not take photographs for a living might not be able to tell this, but that photo was not taken from dead on the side (not even close). Every millimeter from the dead center that photo is makes the toe look longer (to a point, then it starts going to other way). Yes I took the photos, and yes this shows me I need to be more careful about how I take them, but that is some pretty rocky ground and it was the end of the day. While I DO realize there is some flaring going on there, I don't think it is anywhere near as bad as is being portrayed. To see that foot and think it is anything worse than this just shocks me.:

This horse's feet were really terrible and it does take some time to grow that out. Not everyone is willing to take it all right away, and that doesn't bother me. I just want to know progress is being made and I find it really interesting that the opinion is no.

Since the example given was Classy and she supposedly hasn't regressed as much as Lacy, I would like to know what is being seen that makes it appear Lacy has regressed. I personally don't see anything that has not improved on either horse with exception of Lacy's left hind outside quarter (and I think the photos exaggerate the change due to a differing angle).

I'm also curious. Could anyone provide photos of a horse whose hooves do not have these issues? I've yet to see a perfect hoof or a perfect farrier.

JB&R? Rick B? Where is everybody? :-)

ACC

Dawn · 06-21-2008, 03:10 AM

I would be interested to see different photos then. Yes I did realize that the photo wasn't dead on center. But I don't think it's off enough that you could argue that the toe is not flared. That's obvious by the change in direction of the hoof wall.

I do see some things that are 'different' from January to now. I don't really see anything that is better. with the possible exception of Classy's heels. And even then, with the toe how it is, I'm not sure that I'd call that an overall hoof improvement.

If someone trimmed my horses, and they looked anything like that 5 days post trim, I'd be laughing in their face. Based on the photos from January, there's absolutely no excuse for the hooves to look like this now no matter how conservative you are. (There's a difference between taking it slow, taking it too slow, and making things worse.)

06-20-2008, 11:37 AM	#11
IIIBarsV Senior Member+ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,211 Images: 27	The heels are not underrun at all. Toes are long though. If it's only been 5 days, I would say the trimmer is being too conservative and needs to apply a bigger roll on the hoofwall. The barely-visible roll that is there will not really get you results because in a couple weeks there will pressure continuing the flaring again. In other words, it's just pretty much maintaining the hoof as it is without really changing anything, good or bad. __________________ Three Bars The Fifth Wish I'd Get Lucky Chipped In Stone Zip Code Bay B Suns Eternal Flame How can you ride in order to make your horse's job easier for them?

06-20-2008, 08:02 PM	#18
IIIBarsV Senior Member+ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,211 Images: 27	Dawn's editted picture is what I'm seeing... the flaring makes the toe longer than it should be. How long depends on the rest of the hoof. The way Dawn has drawn in the line which follows the line of the hoof just below the coronet band is a good way to tell how you're doing in terms of toe position and length. Length is kind of a figurative term here... relative only to the hoof individually. Some horses when not flared have longer toes, others might have little short toes. The key here is the flaring. If the flare was not present, the toe would be shorter. __________________ Three Bars The Fifth Wish I'd Get Lucky Chipped In Stone Zip Code Bay B Suns Eternal Flame How can you ride in order to make your horse's job easier for them?

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06-20-2008, 11:40 AM	#12
accphotography Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 3,704	What causes you to believe the toes are long? Not challenging, just want to see what you see. ACC

06-20-2008, 11:55 AM	#13
accphotography Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 3,704	Here are some pics from January for reference: Lacy: http://www.accphotography.com/newweb/lacy20 Classy: http://www.accphotography.com/newweb/classy6 ACC

06-20-2008, 06:03 PM	#14
Dawn Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 29,584 Images: 1283	At 5 days post trim, I would be incredibly unhappy.

06-20-2008, 06:05 PM	#15
Dawn Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 29,584 Images: 1283	I see the same basic issues in January. But they've actually gotten worse from then till now. At least on Lacy. I'll have to go back and look at Classy's current photos and compare.

06-20-2008, 06:07 PM	#16
Dawn Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 29,584 Images: 1283	On Classy I don't see as much regression. But I don't see any 'real' improvement on the obvious issues at hand either. I don't know if you're trimming them yourself or not. And I don't want to say anything hurtful or discouraging if you are. But whoever is trimming them needs to take a 'reality check' so to speak about what's actually going on with these feet.

06-20-2008, 07:43 PM	#17
Dawn Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 29,584 Images: 1283	I know the question wasn't directed towards me, so I apologize in advance. But this is why I would confidently say that the toes are too long. I actually think I was quite generous with this line. But this is the line the toe should follow based on the new growth from the top of the foot.

06-20-2008, 08:36 PM	#19
accphotography Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 3,704	No I am not trimming them myself. I am willing to accept that she is not doing the best job she could be doing. Unfortunately I have been looking for over a year and she's the best of what I've found. While I admit it's not the best job I have seen I can NOT understand how someone could think they were actually better in January. The line that was drawn on that photo is highly inaccurate imo. I realize that people who do not take photographs for a living might not be able to tell this, but that photo was not taken from dead on the side (not even close). Every millimeter from the dead center that photo is makes the toe look longer (to a point, then it starts going to other way). Yes I took the photos, and yes this shows me I need to be more careful about how I take them, but that is some pretty rocky ground and it was the end of the day. While I DO realize there is some flaring going on there, I don't think it is anywhere near as bad as is being portrayed. To see that foot and think it is anything worse than this just shocks me.: This horse's feet were really terrible and it does take some time to grow that out. Not everyone is willing to take it all right away, and that doesn't bother me. I just want to know progress is being made and I find it really interesting that the opinion is no. Since the example given was Classy and she supposedly hasn't regressed as much as Lacy, I would like to know what is being seen that makes it appear Lacy has regressed. I personally don't see anything that has not improved on either horse with exception of Lacy's left hind outside quarter (and I think the photos exaggerate the change due to a differing angle). I'm also curious. Could anyone provide photos of a horse whose hooves do not have these issues? I've yet to see a perfect hoof or a perfect farrier. JB&R? Rick B? Where is everybody? :-) ACC

06-21-2008, 03:10 AM	#20
Dawn Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 29,584 Images: 1283	I would be interested to see different photos then. Yes I did realize that the photo wasn't dead on center. But I don't think it's off enough that you could argue that the toe is not flared. That's obvious by the change in direction of the hoof wall. I do see some things that are 'different' from January to now. I don't really see anything that is better. with the possible exception of Classy's heels. And even then, with the toe how it is, I'm not sure that I'd call that an overall hoof improvement. If someone trimmed my horses, and they looked anything like that 5 days post trim, I'd be laughing in their face. Based on the photos from January, there's absolutely no excuse for the hooves to look like this now no matter how conservative you are. (There's a difference between taking it slow, taking it too slow, and making things worse.)