[JBandRio]

Color has nothing to do with the mind

[Commanderkins]

Sixstring has the cutest pintaloossa(?) colt

[tightpaycheck]

Originally Posted by JBandRio

Color has nothing to do with the mind

C'mon, I know that...but who knows what weird genes might lurk in their that don't cross right. This is the same lady that tells you if you breed buckskin to palamino it will "wash out the color" of the foal. She doesn't know about perlino and cremello, just that you can get a super light foal that is worthless to her.
But if no one else has heard it, I'm happy to write it off as an old wives tail.

[Top Dun]

BUT for color breeders like appaloosas and Paints and such, Perlino and cremello do "wash out the color" so to speak. Basically if the foal is to light in color then you can't tell the difference between the Pattern and the base coat color. I personally won't breed Palamino, or cremello or perlino intentionally in Appaloosas because I want to see a color contrast not an all creamy white looking horse that is supposed to have spots. Of course I don't have a problem with a TB or QH breeder breeding in these colors, but for me I won't have them in my breeding program because it does not make for a very visible appaloosa.

Originally Posted by tightpaycheck

C'mon, I know that...but who knows what weird genes might lurk in their that don't cross right. This is the same lady that tells you if you breed buckskin to palamino it will "wash out the color" of the foal. She doesn't know about perlino and cremello, just that you can get a super light foal that is worthless to her.
But if no one else has heard it, I'm happy to write it off as an old wives tail.

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by tightpaycheck

C'mon, I know that...but who knows what weird genes might lurk in their that don't cross right.

But you're talking about color genes, not conformation or size or intelligence genes. They are totally separate.

Now, what MIGHT be the origin of this myth is that too many breeders breed PURELY for color - who cares if the animal is a fruitbasket. So you get one cool Appy and breed to one cool pinto, both of whom are breeding SOLEY because of their color and are not very intelligent, trainable animals, and you get a pintaloosa that is not an ambassador to his species.

[Top Dun]

Yep breeding only for color is a bad thing and then you never know what you are going to get. TB breeders (racing) often have some similar problems in that they tend to also breed for things like speed and stamina etc and in some cases even a slightly more aggressive horse because they think it helps the horse race better. But man when you have to work with those air head wicked mean horses on or off the track, it just goes to show how TB's got their "flighty" reputation.

Originally Posted by JBandRio

Now, what MIGHT be the origin of this myth is that too many breeders breed PURELY for color - who cares if the animal is a fruitbasket. So you get one cool Appy and breed to one cool pinto, both of whom are breeding SOLEY because of their color and are not very intelligent, trainable animals, and you get a pintaloosa that is not an ambassador to his species.

[Kicks]

Originally Posted by tightpaycheck

Years ago someone told me that they don't cross paints and apps because you seem to get a high percentage with nothing upstairs. I only ever met one, and he sure had a few screws loose, so I have always believed it.

Originally Posted by JBandRio

Color has nothing to do with the mind

Originally Posted by tightpaycheck

C'mon, I know that...but who knows what weird genes might lurk in their that don't cross right. This is the same lady that tells you if you breed buckskin to palamino it will "wash out the color" of the foal. She doesn't know about perlino and cremello, just that you can get a super light foal that is worthless to her.
But if no one else has heard it, I'm happy to write it off as an old wives tail.

Obviously you did not know that color does not effect/affect the mind or you would not have originally stated that you had always believed that paint/app cross had "nothing upstairs". I can honestly say that I see no reason to cross the 2 and would never knowingly breed one of my Apps to a horse carrying pinto/paint.

Dilute does "wash out the color". Not all who breed want dilute colors so if you do not want dilutes you don't breed for them.

[Kriss2004]

Originally Posted by tightpaycheck

Years ago someone told me that they don't cross paints and apps because you seem to get a high percentage with nothing upstairs. I only ever met one, and he sure had a few screws loose, so I have always believed it.

Like some of the other HGS members have said, most likly what happen was someone bred just for color and didnt pay attention to disposition, trainability etc...... We have 5 Pintaloosa's and all of them are friendly, easy to train and plain beautiful!

[tightpaycheck]

I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone that might own or breed pintaloosas and I apologize. If I can make myself a little more clear without making it worse I would like to. The old-timey horse breeders don't read up on or study this. They can tell you that Impressive horses fall down a lot, but don't understand Hypp.Or that not all Impressive horses have it. They don't understand the genetics behind lethal whites or cremellos, they just understand that it happens. That was the point I was trying to make...not that it doesn't result in a light horse, just that they don't know why. They had bred for and bought a few pintaloosas thinking that the flashy color would sell, and weren't happy with the results. When she told me that they had nothing upstairs I just figured that there was something hidden and genetic causing it. And that they certainly wouldn't have a name associated with it or know exactly why. I never thought it was caused by the color, just that it was something associated with it...like some Impressive horses have HYPP. Or some overo on overo crosses give you a lethal white.
If someone like that tells me something, I don't just blow it off...they have more experience than I do. I just assume it is something we don't understand. Lethal whites are caused by color...if a certain color combination can cause that trouble how far off is it to say a certain combo could cause some kind of mental problem?

It is very possible that they were breeding bad stock to bad stock. They certainly do breed mostly for color. Or even that they just had a few bad experiences. But since I haven't spoken to anyone else that has a pintaloosa I thought it would be interesting to see if anyone else had that experience, or knew why it would happen. We don't have many in this area, since most people happily accept what she has said as a fact. Since I see so many people have had good experiences, I am quite happy to accept it as bad advice given to me years ago.
Maybe I'm just not making sense anyomore because of sleep deprivation and an overdue mare.

[JBandRio]

tightpaycheck, you're making perfect sense