[idlewild]

So, I've just moved Buddy to a new barn, and i have a little more control over what he is fed and how and when, etc. Basically, i'm feeding him his grain now not the barn owner. But, I really don't know if what i'm giving him is the best. So....

Nutrition is one area I really lack in knowledge... RBs, complete feeds, reaaaaaally confuse me. I've got a rough idea of things, like the need for protein etc. but yeah... help!

Here is what he's getting now:

AM and PM half Grass and half Alfalfa. Not sure how much exactly, need to ask the barn owner how much. But lets put it this way, all the other horses in the pasture he's in with are nice and fat

24/7 turnout on at LEAST 5 acres, right now they have access to the back pasture which is an extra 10 acres. The 5 acre is more weeds than grass, the 10 acre is all grass (I guess during the summer they let it grow for awhile and get one cutting off it). Everything is dead, so not a whole lot of munchies, but it keeps them all occupied and browsing during the day.

Then, grain once a day (whenever I get out there, so anytime between noon and 6pm).
2.5lbs Nutrena Safe Choice
roughly 1/2lb BOSS (need to weigh it... but it's 1.5 cups)
1/2 cup corn oil
Smartpak SmartTendon supplement (he tweaked a suspensory last month and in the other leg had funny windpuffs a year ago that went away after 5 months rest... so I thought this might help keeps things strong and tight... I've heard good reviews so far on it, but any input on this would be helpful) here is the label for it http://www.smartpakequine.com/pdfs/s...tTendon_28.pdf

Right now he's not being worked period because of the tweaked suspensory. So it'll be awhile till I start riding again, but come this spring I plan to start putting him into training for three day eventing and obviously, his diet will need to be amped up then, but for now it's just maintenance.

Oh, and he's in pretty decent weight right now, just lacking muscle tone.

Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions on changes or improvements would be much appreciated!!

[Dawn]

Do you have access to any brands of feed besides Nutrena? I'll wait to give an in depth answer till I know that.

[idlewild]

I have access to Purina and Ranch-Way feeds as well.

Here is the link to our primary feed dealer in the area http://www.jaxmercantile.com/home.php?cat=1287, though what they have on their website, I've found, is usually only about half of what they actually carry in the store. but, Nutrena, Purina, and Ranch-Way can be found there.

Oh and, forgot to add... Buddy is a 11 year old TB gelding who has always been a bit of a hard keeper. Especially when in work/conditioning. He might get a little bit of body fat when not in work, but as soon as we start conditioning it just vanishes. So any ideas of what to do when in work would be very helpful. I've thought of beet pulp, rice bran, etc. but really don't know what would be best or why.

I'm not afraid to experiment with different feeds, I'd just really like to know the WHY and WHAT behind them.

[Dawn]

I would feed either Enrich 32 or Defiance Vital Edge at the appropriate level (likely 1 lb of either at this point in time) in place of the SafeChoice. I'd eliminate the corn oil.

You might find that you need additional calories than this provides (though at this time, probably not). If you do, at that point I'd add rice bran or beet pulp. Probably wouldn't need any more than 1 1/2 lbs of rice bran or 2 lbs of beet pulp. (Again talking right now, not when in harder work.)

Anyway, just what I'd do.

[Dawn]

Oh I missed the second part of that post. As far as losing weight when in work, there are two distinct possibilities, well three.

One - the need for additional calories is misjudged.
Two - the proper level of nutrition isn't being supplied for the amount of work being performed.
Three - the increased workload (or something associated with it) is upsetting his digestive health (first thought would be ulcers, but other things are possibilities as well).

Those woul be my top three guesses.

[idlewild]

Originally Posted by Dawn

I would feed either Enrich 32 or Defiance Vital Edge at the appropriate level (likely 1 lb of either at this point in time) in place of the SafeChoice. I'd eliminate the corn oil.

You might find that you need additional calories than this provides (though at this time, probably not). If you do, at that point I'd add rice bran or beet pulp. Probably wouldn't need any more than 1 1/2 lbs of rice bran or 2 lbs of beet pulp. (Again talking right now, not when in harder work.)

Anyway, just what I'd do.

Cool, I'll look around for either of those two. Do you think the amount of BOSS is good? hmm... i wonder if he'll even eat rice bran or beet pulp, this horse can be so danged picky!

Question, the two you suggested, i can find info online for enrich 32 easily, but not so for the Defiance vital edge, i've honestly never heard of that one before. Enrich 32 yes, but not the vital edge.

Originally Posted by Dawn

Oh I missed the second part of that post. As far as losing weight when in work, there are two distinct possibilities, well three.

One - the need for additional calories is misjudged.
Two - the proper level of nutrition isn't being supplied for the amount of work being performed.
Three - the increased workload (or something associated with it) is upsetting his digestive health (first thought would be ulcers, but other things are possibilities as well).

Those woul be my top three guesses.

My guess is that it's either one or two, he's not the kind of horse to get overly stressed out about things, he's fairly laid back... i've never seen anything with him to make me think ulcers. He's a slow eater but always finishes all his food and will look for more. He's just... always been long and lean, very very lean.

I've tried my best to increase the feed with the workload, but I really have to admit that I doubt I've known enough to be able to provide him with what he needs.

[Dawn]

It could even be a case of too much of the wrong feedstuffs being increased when he's in work. I was thinking along those lines when I said something associated with the increase in work (though there are even other possibilities as well that would/could fall under that).

Do you happen to remember the type/amount of feed he's been on in the past when in work?

Here's the other feed I mentioned...
http://www.ranch-way.com/images/E008...fvitaledge.pdf

I've not looked at it closely and really know nothing about the quality.

Oh, can you outline his yearly deworming program for us?

[idlewild]

First summer I had him in work he was on free choice grass hay and was getting BOSS and an Omolene Sweet feed (*cringe* that was before i knew better), the 200 I think. When I got him in january of that year he was super skinny, probably a 3 body score. He was getting something like 6 or 7 lbs total, i forgot what the ration of BOSS to Omolene was. He actually bulked up rather nicely.

He stayed on that until middle of last summer (2008) when I moved and he went to a new barn and was put on the Safechoice initially, then the barn owner switched to the Ranch-Way version of safechoice (because of the price difference) about 2 weeks after we moved there. He was getting about 1.5lbs a day (split into two feedings), and grass AM and PM (though, IMO, not NEAR enough grass... the BO was really stingy about hay... which is one of the reasons I moved). He was off work last winter, and then this spring, when I brought him back into work I upped the grain to give or take 2 to 2.5 lbs a day split into two feedings. Same hay. When school started in August I kinda stopped riding him, and the BO started feeding half grass half alfalfa for the winter and he's actually looking pretty nice right now, I wish he'd stay this way and just put some muscle on underneath.

Then this last sunday I moved him to a new barn, and is on the current feed as listed in my OP.

I have pictures of him during all those times, I'll see if I can get them up. It's not like he's ever noticibly skinny, at the worst he's a high 4, which was most notably this last summer, any fat he gained over the winter just vanished when I start conditioning again.

And this is my de-worming schedule:

February: Safe Guard paste (Fenbendazole)
April: Equimax (Ivermectin and Praziquantel)
June: Strongid Paste (Pyantel pamoate)
August: Ivermectin
October: Ivermectin
December: Strongid Paste (Pyantel pamoate)