[PhoenixRising5]

My 6 yr old gelding is bad about his headset. We do eventing and his headset for dressage is ummm, well not there. He's had his teeth done and doesn't have any pain or health issues. We ride in a O ring snaffle with a peanut in the middle as he likes to chew on things along with a flash noseband. If I put a kimberwike(spelling?) on him he has a perfect headset but I can't use that in dressage. I would HATE to use draw reins or a martengail on him. The people before me used draw reins on him and he would go behind the vertical when ever he was ridden. Does anyone have any tips?

[CowGirlUp1833]

You probably need more forward.... drive him from behind and harness the momentum in the bridle. Make sure you don't just pull against him, this will only cause a tug of war, and he will win! LOL

I don't have a ton of time now, but read through some of my old training threads as I had/have similar issues with my wb gelding.

Its a LONG process...not something you can fix over night or just swap bits and change.... but patience, proper training and working from behind will help him.

[eqtrainer]

Be careful you are not just pulling his head down and then calling that a head set. "Head sets" are part of collection, so you want to make sure that you have enough balance and forward movement so that he can move into your hands.

With the kimberwicke, you have leverage as compared to an O ring. Is he pulling against your hands? Is he bending at the poll at all? Is he evading you?

[JBandRio]

Cowgirl is right - lack of "headset" stems from not having forward well-established.

[PhoenixRising5]

He goes forword quite well. (He used to be a runaway also) He doesn't pull against me, or if he does I push him forword. He'll bend at the poll for 6-10 strides then come out of it.

[Just_me]

I personally wouldn't use draw reins,most of the time it just forces the head into possition while the hindend gets left behind.You always have to work from back to front,not front to back.
First of all,get him supple so that he can easily flex and bend.Then work on forward motion.What you want is a forward,relaxed horse that is seeking long and low movement.
Keep driving him into your hands but don't hold him into possition.With giving hands you 'catch'the forward motion of the horse.If he can only hold 6 strides,so be it,it is hard work to keep a rounded,frame with a nice headset.
Good exercises are cavaletti and ground pole lines.

[PhoenixRising5]

should I ask him to extend or collect over the ground poles or just regular striding?

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising5

He goes forword quite well. (He used to be a runaway also) He doesn't pull against me, or if he does I push him forword.

Just be sure you aren't confusing "forward" with "speed". Not speed as in running away, but as in, legs moving faster. With TRUE forward, legs move with a longer stride.

He'll bend at the poll for 6-10 strides then come out of it.

If he's only flexing at the poll, then you don't have forward really established. Flexing only at the poll is incorrect and is too often used to determine whether the horse has the right "headset" or not. The right head/neck carriage starts with what the neck is doing at the withers (assuming that forward has already been established). If the neck is not lifted at the withers, then nothing else about the neck or head is correct.

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising5

should I ask him to extend or collect over the ground poles or just regular striding?

Start with regular striding. He needs to become comfy and relaxed through regular striding. 3-4 poles to start as your goal.

Then increase the distance between them by 6" or so. Your goal is to have him lengthen his stride while still maintaining the same pace. The longer distance will encourage him to push more with his hind end (always a good thing and always the goal for impulsion) and reach more with his front end, and those 2 things will just about necessitate that he lift his back and lower his head and neck. That is the beginning of the long and low that forms the foundation for the physical and mental training of any horse.

I would not ever set trot poles shorter than the normal stride of a horse. If you (in general, not you in particular) think that is necessary to teach the horse to slow down, then you don't have the concept of what impulsion/forward means. It's far far too easy for the horse to take short dinky strides over shortened distances between poles. Teaching the horse to shorten his stride is relatively easy once you have impulsion and understanding of the half-halt, so IMHO there is no need to use any shortened poles to do that for you. But on the flip side, the lengthened poles can be VERY useful to teach the horse how to lengthen his stride and not just move his legs faster - that's a bit harder concept to teach.

[Silverleprichua]

Your comitting the ultimate dressage sin of riding front to back. Forget about what his head is doing for a while and concentrate on the rear end.

For a horse to be soft and supple up in the front front, he has to be engaged and active in the back. You want the hind legs reaching deep underneath the horse with a great deal of impulsion. Your legs are going to help create this energy and your seat helps it travel forwards. Forward does not mean rushing or fast. Forward is contained rhythmic energy that seeps out every stride.
Once you have him going forward you also need to check that he is staying supple. Serpentines, leg yielding, shoulder-in, etc will teach your horse how to maintain impulsion while keeping his body soft and supple.
Once he is forward and supple then you can start thinking about "capturing energy". At this point he will have a lot of energy coming up from his hindend and through his back, now it's time for your hands to catch the energy. By providing soft but steady contact, you give your horse a place for that energy to go. By establishing this contact the energy from the hind end can go through the body to the mouth and be recycled to the hindend again. When this contact has been established your horse will seek out the bit, his back will raise and soften, his neck will gently arch, and he will travel forward with impulsion in a rhythmic and relaxed manner.

Creating a "head-set" can be taught in three steps. 1) shift pressure back and forth until your horse drops his head to avoid the uncomfortable pressure 2) reward your horse for dropping his head 3)repeat step 1 when he lifts his head
Creating a head set does not take talent, it does not accomplish anything but create a false picture. A head set might get you through the lower levels of eventing but as you progress the dressage will catch up with you and you will have to go back and teach your horse how to accept contact.
Doing things the right way is not always the easy or quick way, but in doing so you create a strong, supple, forward horse who listens and respects your aids.