Hay Belly

BriLeigh · 05-08-2008, 12:59 PM

My mare has always been a hard keeper and always on the thin side. She is finally starting to look pretty decent except now she has a large hay belly but her ribs slightly show when he trots and canters and she never fills out up top like she should be. She is wormed every other month and I go on a rotation of Fen, Iver, PP, Oxi and Moxi. That is also open for discussion and help. I don't know much about it so if you have any suggestions go right ahead. She is getting between 18-20 lbs of orchard grass hay a day plus a little bit of grass in the pasture. It's not much though. She also gets 1 lb of LMF Super Supplement a day and I give her 6-8 lbs of beet pulp a day. Broken into 2 feedings.

She is my Dressage horse so she is worked pretty regularly. She is in very good shape other than no matter how much work i do her topline across her back and butt just never seems to get where i want it. I will be talking to my vet about it when he comes to do my other horses teeth hopefully in the next week. This one's teeth were done about 6 months ago.

I was thinking about maybe trying some daily probiotics, but I'm not really sure. Any suggestions?

JessD · 05-08-2008, 01:18 PM

what age, breed is she? any history of metabolic issues? her worming and teeth schedule sound good... is her hay quality good? ever have it tested for nutritional value, NSC? protein? does she finish all her hay and supplement, does she spit any out or ball up the hay when she chews it? you say she is a hard keeper and always on the thin side, but when I think of a hard keeper, people generally have to pour grain into these horses, 6-10lb a day, and/or free choice hay, fat supplements, oil? etc. getting just a hay diet and a supplement, she sounds more like an easier keeper!! a hay belly is generally a sign of cushings disease and hay is also a sign of a low quality hay thus wondering how your rates.. I work with a lady who had a tb/morgan cross they evented and did dressage with him, he was an easy keeper, happy, doing well, but they could not get a top line on him, he began to get lethargic and they tested him and found out about the cushings..he was also insulin resistant which they might have known about before hand..just throwing some ideas out there for you!

BriLeigh · 05-08-2008, 02:12 PM

She is a tb and I belive her to be crossed with maybe QH but it isn't for sure. She is a hard keeper in that she is difficult to keep weight on. I have had horses that have only needed hay and they could maintain a healthy weight off of that. I used to bounce around what to feed her because she just didn't get the weight on. She is 12 years old. I believe the hay I get is good quality. My other horse is slender but stays pretty good with it. I have never had it checked before though. She always eats all of her food. She doesn't spit any out or ball it up. This horse can eat and eat and eat!

JessD · 05-08-2008, 07:46 PM

many of those TB's are notoriously hard keepers, hay is just not enough and they need something more to meet calorie and energy needs, were the other horses you talked about TB's, is the other horse you have a TB? If not, they really can't be compared, breeds vary and horses vary, generally your easy keepers will be QHs, ponies, drafts, pasos, morgans, some gaited breeds, some warmbloods, typical hard keepers are most often Arabs, TB's, ocassional gaited breeds etc. etc. I'd put her on a senior feed, the best one out there is Triple Crown Senior it is a beet pulp based textured feed, 10% fat, high fiber, no grains, low starch and sugar... TC feeds also contain probiotics, digestive enzymes, organic minerals, yeast cultures, mycotoxin binders, this feed also has rice bran another excellent ingredient for weight maintenance.. check it out at http://www.triplecrownfeed.com You should give it a try, you won't go back to anything else, if the 5 pound minimum becomes too much there are other options to go to. I have an appendix Qh too, but that lady is an easy keeper..I am switching her over to Triple crown lite pretty soon here, she is getting the 12% supplement now along with the barn grain which I want her off of asap!

Dawn · 05-09-2008, 10:39 AM

Do you have any photos of her? In particular ones that show the areas where she's not gaining weight?

BriLeigh · 05-10-2008, 08:11 AM

The only camera I have right now is the one on my phone but after I get back this afternoon I'll go out and take some pics. I know that some of it is probably muscle like her topline but she is actually pretty well muscled and she has gotten better but it seems to have just peaked and we are stuck.

ejforrest · 05-10-2008, 11:18 AM

Increase hay. Have a FEC(fecal egg count) done. There is alot of resistance to many dewormers. Rotation doesnt help, it acually helps speard resistance. FEC's will not show tapeworms. Best time to deworm for tapeworms is late fall/early winter and late spring/early summer.
Pot bellied appearance is a very good sign of parasite infestation.
There is known resistance to: fenbendazole, oxibendazole, and pyrantel pamoate. If using oxibendazole or pyrantel, it is recommended to use them "together" it improves the effectiveness of treatment over treatment with the individual drug. For tapeworms you need to use a dewormer with praziquantel in them. This would be Quest Plus, Equimax, Zimecterin Gold.
Praziauantel is the only FDA approved drug for tapeworms.
Feeing beet pulp: beet pulp is safe to feed as much as you want up to a gallon or more a day. Its great for putting weight on hard keeprs and older horses, or sick horses recovering from illness or surgery. Increase her beet pulp. Adding fat is a great way to help put weight on hardkeepers. Its well tolorated. Start out at 1/4 cup and work up to a cup a day. Inproves weight, coat shine, and energy. Fat oil supplies 2.5 time more energy than oats, corn, and barely. Its a "calmer" energy.
"Parasite Programs for Mature Horses"
www.thehorse.com/printarticle.aspx?ID=5271

ncs · 05-12-2008, 06:35 AM

ejforrest's post is excellent-
when I had a TB, we did all those things mentioned & my requirement to the barn manager was to "feed her hay until she is knee deep in it" bec. they just kept trying to issue 2 flakes at a time & that was not enough!!!! Also the regular work you are doing is vital for weight on a tb- without work, they will get poor looking.

JBandRio · 05-12-2008, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BriLeigh

She is wormed every other month and I go on a rotation of Fen, Iver, PP, Oxi and Moxi.

Oxibendazole, fenbendazole, and pyrantel pamoate have high degrees of resistance, so as single-doses in a regular deworming program are pretty worthless. This means you get only 2 good dewormings a year. What have you been doing for tapeworms? Nothing in this rotation addresses them.

BriLeigh · 05-12-2008, 12:45 PM

What kind of rotation would you suggest? I really don't know much of anything about this subject so some help would be appreciated. I read that sometimes sand can cause some of this so I did the test in a sandwich bag and I did see some sand so I am going to do a week of sand clear just to be safe.

What I really dislike is that I do a ton of work with her for Dressage and her topline only gets slightly better, and then it just stays the same. It isn't horrible but it isn't great.

I feed 6 cups of beet pulp a day. I can up that if needed though.

05-08-2008, 12:59 PM	#1
BriLeigh Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Washington Posts: 376 Images: 13	Hay Belly My mare has always been a hard keeper and always on the thin side. She is finally starting to look pretty decent except now she has a large hay belly but her ribs slightly show when he trots and canters and she never fills out up top like she should be. She is wormed every other month and I go on a rotation of Fen, Iver, PP, Oxi and Moxi. That is also open for discussion and help. I don't know much about it so if you have any suggestions go right ahead. She is getting between 18-20 lbs of orchard grass hay a day plus a little bit of grass in the pasture. It's not much though. She also gets 1 lb of LMF Super Supplement a day and I give her 6-8 lbs of beet pulp a day. Broken into 2 feedings. She is my Dressage horse so she is worked pretty regularly. She is in very good shape other than no matter how much work i do her topline across her back and butt just never seems to get where i want it. I will be talking to my vet about it when he comes to do my other horses teeth hopefully in the next week. This one's teeth were done about 6 months ago. I was thinking about maybe trying some daily probiotics, but I'm not really sure. Any suggestions?

05-08-2008, 07:46 PM	#4
JessD Full Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 123	many of those TB's are notoriously hard keepers, hay is just not enough and they need something more to meet calorie and energy needs, were the other horses you talked about TB's, is the other horse you have a TB? If not, they really can't be compared, breeds vary and horses vary, generally your easy keepers will be QHs, ponies, drafts, pasos, morgans, some gaited breeds, some warmbloods, typical hard keepers are most often Arabs, TB's, ocassional gaited breeds etc. etc. I'd put her on a senior feed, the best one out there is Triple Crown Senior it is a beet pulp based textured feed, 10% fat, high fiber, no grains, low starch and sugar... TC feeds also contain probiotics, digestive enzymes, organic minerals, yeast cultures, mycotoxin binders, this feed also has rice bran another excellent ingredient for weight maintenance.. check it out at http://www.triplecrownfeed.com You should give it a try, you won't go back to anything else, if the 5 pound minimum becomes too much there are other options to go to. I have an appendix Qh too, but that lady is an easy keeper..I am switching her over to Triple crown lite pretty soon here, she is getting the 12% supplement now along with the barn grain which I want her off of asap! Last edited by JessD; 05-08-2008 at 07:50 PM. Reason: added more

05-10-2008, 11:18 AM	#7
ejforrest Senior Member+ Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: U.P. Michigan Posts: 2,516 Images: 360	Increase hay. Have a FEC(fecal egg count) done. There is alot of resistance to many dewormers. Rotation doesnt help, it acually helps speard resistance. FEC's will not show tapeworms. Best time to deworm for tapeworms is late fall/early winter and late spring/early summer. Pot bellied appearance is a very good sign of parasite infestation. There is known resistance to: fenbendazole, oxibendazole, and pyrantel pamoate. If using oxibendazole or pyrantel, it is recommended to use them "together" it improves the effectiveness of treatment over treatment with the individual drug. For tapeworms you need to use a dewormer with praziquantel in them. This would be Quest Plus, Equimax, Zimecterin Gold. Praziauantel is the only FDA approved drug for tapeworms. Feeing beet pulp: beet pulp is safe to feed as much as you want up to a gallon or more a day. Its great for putting weight on hard keeprs and older horses, or sick horses recovering from illness or surgery. Increase her beet pulp. Adding fat is a great way to help put weight on hardkeepers. Its well tolorated. Start out at 1/4 cup and work up to a cup a day. Inproves weight, coat shine, and energy. Fat oil supplies 2.5 time more energy than oats, corn, and barely. Its a "calmer" energy. "Parasite Programs for Mature Horses" www.thehorse.com/printarticle.aspx?ID=5271 __________________ ej ----------- And God said to horse, trust no man if you cannot see your own image in his eyes.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Big Belly?	Kiraral	Horse Health	8	07-18-2007 11:46 AM
How to get rid of a hay belly???!!!!	SongofBlaze	Horse Health	7	02-22-2006 04:32 AM
Hay Belly?	TravelingGirl	Horse Health	17	01-25-2006 01:03 PM
Getting rid of a hay belly??	born2ride_33	Horse Health	15	08-14-2005 06:02 AM
Can you tell a hay belly from a worm belly??	sher327	Horse Health	17	06-26-2005 10:46 PM

05-08-2008, 01:18 PM	#2
JessD Full Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 123	what age, breed is she? any history of metabolic issues? her worming and teeth schedule sound good... is her hay quality good? ever have it tested for nutritional value, NSC? protein? does she finish all her hay and supplement, does she spit any out or ball up the hay when she chews it? you say she is a hard keeper and always on the thin side, but when I think of a hard keeper, people generally have to pour grain into these horses, 6-10lb a day, and/or free choice hay, fat supplements, oil? etc. getting just a hay diet and a supplement, she sounds more like an easier keeper!! a hay belly is generally a sign of cushings disease and hay is also a sign of a low quality hay thus wondering how your rates.. I work with a lady who had a tb/morgan cross they evented and did dressage with him, he was an easy keeper, happy, doing well, but they could not get a top line on him, he began to get lethargic and they tested him and found out about the cushings..he was also insulin resistant which they might have known about before hand..just throwing some ideas out there for you!

05-08-2008, 02:12 PM	#3
BriLeigh Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Washington Posts: 376 Images: 13	She is a tb and I belive her to be crossed with maybe QH but it isn't for sure. She is a hard keeper in that she is difficult to keep weight on. I have had horses that have only needed hay and they could maintain a healthy weight off of that. I used to bounce around what to feed her because she just didn't get the weight on. She is 12 years old. I believe the hay I get is good quality. My other horse is slender but stays pretty good with it. I have never had it checked before though. She always eats all of her food. She doesn't spit any out or ball it up. This horse can eat and eat and eat!

05-09-2008, 10:39 AM	#5
Dawn Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 29,224 Images: 1283	Do you have any photos of her? In particular ones that show the areas where she's not gaining weight?

05-10-2008, 08:11 AM	#6
BriLeigh Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Washington Posts: 376 Images: 13	The only camera I have right now is the one on my phone but after I get back this afternoon I'll go out and take some pics. I know that some of it is probably muscle like her topline but she is actually pretty well muscled and she has gotten better but it seems to have just peaked and we are stuck.

05-12-2008, 06:35 AM	#8
ncs Full Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 76	ejforrest's post is excellent- when I had a TB, we did all those things mentioned & my requirement to the barn manager was to "feed her hay until she is knee deep in it" bec. they just kept trying to issue 2 flakes at a time & that was not enough!!!! Also the regular work you are doing is vital for weight on a tb- without work, they will get poor looking.

05-12-2008, 12:45 PM	#10
BriLeigh Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Washington Posts: 376 Images: 13	What kind of rotation would you suggest? I really don't know much of anything about this subject so some help would be appreciated. I read that sometimes sand can cause some of this so I did the test in a sandwich bag and I did see some sand so I am going to do a week of sand clear just to be safe. What I really dislike is that I do a ton of work with her for Dressage and her topline only gets slightly better, and then it just stays the same. It isn't horrible but it isn't great. I feed 6 cups of beet pulp a day. I can up that if needed though.