Good Reasons to Breed Grade Horses?

BestofPrincess · 07-10-2005, 09:56 AM

I'd like to point out that the cross of a friesian and morgan is the closet to a pureblooded friesian as possiable

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaSide81

I do still think ALL breeding should be done very carefully and with regards as to how the two horse's conformations will mesh. There are some great Friesian Crosses, but I have also seen some AWFUL ones that looked like their conformation was put together using different pieces! I have seen the same with Draft breeds as well. Just because the two horses are beautiful, does NOT mean their foals together with me. You need to be aware that some breeds/horses just DON'T cross nicely with Drafts or Warmbloods or whatever. I am using Drafts/Friesians for examples because their conformations are very different from other "common" riding horses, such as Arabians, Morgans, etc. Drafts and Friesians are BIG, muscular, and have heavy bone; putting these together hapazardly with any light breed just because "Friesian Sporthorses are selling well" or "American Warmbloods are selling" can result in disaster.

Top Dun · 07-10-2005, 11:54 AM

Grade Stallions breeding? maybe- Locally there are alot of nice ( unregistered and pedigree undocumented ) horses. IF I found an excellent quality Appaloosa stallion that could be registered with the American Appaloosa Association (AKA Colored) AND that stallion performs in some event. I MIGHT consider breeding him. However IMO most stallions need to be gelded anyway and any Nice colored Appaloosa Gelding CAN be registered ApHC in their hardship registry and be shown in regular ApHC events so colored grade stallions to me are better off as geldings.

ON the other hand the CRHA will INSPECT and accept grade mare for breeding purposes. IF I ran across a nice grade mare that meets the inspection for the CRHA I'd consider breeding her. Sill I want some type of performance record. and most of all I want to BREED UP like others have said. I'd rather breed up to a registerable horse rather than a grade to grade. If I found a nice unpapred Arabian type mare, I'd bred back for a papered half arab. If I found a nice highly colored appaloosa mare ( See standards above) then I'd consider having her Inspected for CRHA breeding stock and have her registered ApAA and ApSHA AND breed here back to recognized stallions.

Other wise, I don't like to see Job blow's grade mare to swampy sams grade stallion just becasue joe blow's kids wanted to have a foal on the ground.

lucky_pine · 07-10-2005, 12:20 PM

Another way to see it...people do what people do. Breed grade to grade. We can't do anything about it so why complain? It's their opinion that counts if they're the ones who are doing it. As long as they take **** good care of the animals and know they will have homes then I guess it's fine.

SeaSide81 · 07-11-2005, 04:39 AM

I didn't consider a conversation about breeding grade horses to be complaining honestly. I was sharing my thoughts on the matter and inviting others to do the same.

And yes, there are some things that can be done about. Don't breed to grade horses if you disapprove. And that is another problem: a lot of the owners just breeding to breed are not taking "**** good care of the animals". A lot of people are "puppy mill breeding"; just having foals to have them. People breed for the stupidest reasons under heaven: they thought a baby would be cute, they did not realize that the mare was fertile, they had no idea a two-year-old stud could get a mare pregnant, their kid wanted a baby from their mare but lost interest...the list goes on and on. I think breeding like that is a BIG problem for anyone who cares about horses.

If we ever want to stop some of the huge problems with the horse community, we have got to consider it our problem and try to do something about it. I think anyone who breeds should have a license. Yes, a license. You should be required to pay a fee, take some courses on breeding, etc. just something to make it harder for "Joe Anybody" who happens to have a fat, ugly, useless mare with god-awful conformation to breed. I think there should be a fine for any horse not bred by a licensed breeder, unless the mare was purchased bred.

Maybe you don't think so and that is just fine, but I think talking and discussing the things that concern us is both helpful and good. It gives you a perspective on what others think and lets you find out more. Maybe I can't do anything all alone, but maybe if I talk with others, discuss idea, and work with them that me because a WE and WE can do something to improve the world just a little.

Well, I will get off my soapbox, but I have to remember that speech for when my daughters are old

.

pavilionpony · 07-11-2005, 08:05 AM

I would personally breed a grade mare if she had a nice temperment and conformation. Most of the people I know have grade horses, I see nothing wrong with them at all. Kind of like mutt dogs; some make the best friends ever.

To me, you can't ride papers anyway. I'm not into show and all of that, so just my opinion.

Circle C · 07-11-2005, 08:25 AM

I thought this thread was good as well. And, (whoever said it), you do have a better chance of getting what you want when you can look back through the generations, but papers still don't mean C rap to me (to be taken lightly). I only have a bout 3 grade horses on the farm.

lucky_pine · 07-11-2005, 08:48 AM

"just something to make it harder for "Joe Anybody" who happens to have a fat, ugly, useless mare with god-awful conformation to breed. "

Here I disagree. A fat, ugly, useless mare with god-awful conformation can still throw good babies, you never truly know. Maybe that "fat, ugly, useless mare with god-awful conformation" is the fastest horse on the quarter mile track. Maybe she's the best jumper, pleasure horse...barrel horse. You never know how the babies are until you try them. A license is just absurd. What about these people who don't have a license but pleasure ride a stud horse? What if that stud horse gets out and breeds a single mare? Do you want to be fined for your stud jumping a fence, coming untied...maybe even bucking someone off and running to the nearest field and breeding before you can get him? I just don't agree.

lucky_pine · 07-11-2005, 08:50 AM

Here's something else to consider. Out around in my area theres a house we call the Killer House. There was a murder there about 15 years ago, and things still aren't settled. Until they are, the people who now live in that house have to leave everything that was there before they move in. That includes a pasture full of registered mares and one stud horse. They CANNOT move those horses out of the pasture. Let me say this again...at the time of the murder the stud horse was in the lot with the mares....he still is. HE CANNOT BE MOVED. That means those people who live there would be fined over and over and over again for something they cannot prevent. Now is that fair?

Thrills · 07-11-2005, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky_pine

"just something to make it harder for "Joe Anybody" who happens to have a fat, ugly, useless mare with god-awful conformation to breed. "

Here I disagree. A fat, ugly, useless mare with god-awful conformation can still throw good babies, you never truly know. Maybe that "fat, ugly, useless mare with god-awful conformation" is the fastest horse on the quarter mile track. Maybe she's the best jumper, pleasure horse...barrel horse. You never know how the babies are until you try them. A license is just absurd. What about these people who don't have a license but pleasure ride a stud horse? What if that stud horse gets out and breeds a single mare? Do you want to be fined for your stud jumping a fence, coming untied...maybe even bucking someone off and running to the nearest field and breeding before you can get him? I just don't agree.

This statement I really don't agree with. Owning a stallion is a great responsiblity and I think that YES that stallion owner should be fined for such behavior. Now back to the topic-I don't have a problem with breeding grade horses and I agree with everyone else that as long as you are breeding up to improve the animal. My grandfather has bred riding ponies for years crossing QH, welsh and shetlands. He gets nice medium sized ponies with great temperments, and he keeps everything he doesn't sell (and some that he just can't sell becasue he loves them

) I have a regestered QH mare, and would not even consider breeding her to a grade stallion, but that is my own preference.

lucky_pine · 07-11-2005, 11:40 AM

If the grade stallion had the temperment, the look, the color, the talent then you'd better believe I'd breed to him whether he is registered or not. I have an EXCELLANT gelding that isn't registered, and the only reason we didn't keep him a stud is because he had too many of the bloodlines that our mares have. Registering, to me, doesn't really mean much except you can look back at the generations and tell they have a)good blood or b)bad blood. What about these mares that are registered and don't look worth a ****? I've seen grade mares WAY better than some of the registereds I've seen. Heck, our neighbor has a grade mare, they don't even know what breed she is, and she has way better conformation and personality than one of our REGISTERED mares. I'd buy a foal out of her.

07-10-2005, 11:54 AM	#32
Top Dun Senior Member+ Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,702 Images: 183 Blog Entries: 1	Grade Stallions breeding? maybe- Locally there are alot of nice ( unregistered and pedigree undocumented ) horses. IF I found an excellent quality Appaloosa stallion that could be registered with the American Appaloosa Association (AKA Colored) AND that stallion performs in some event. I MIGHT consider breeding him. However IMO most stallions need to be gelded anyway and any Nice colored Appaloosa Gelding CAN be registered ApHC in their hardship registry and be shown in regular ApHC events so colored grade stallions to me are better off as geldings. ON the other hand the CRHA will INSPECT and accept grade mare for breeding purposes. IF I ran across a nice grade mare that meets the inspection for the CRHA I'd consider breeding her. Sill I want some type of performance record. and most of all I want to BREED UP like others have said. I'd rather breed up to a registerable horse rather than a grade to grade. If I found a nice unpapred Arabian type mare, I'd bred back for a papered half arab. If I found a nice highly colored appaloosa mare ( See standards above) then I'd consider having her Inspected for CRHA breeding stock and have her registered ApAA and ApSHA AND breed here back to recognized stallions. Other wise, I don't like to see Job blow's grade mare to swampy sams grade stallion just becasue joe blow's kids wanted to have a foal on the ground. __________________ Cattle Producers DO NOT want NAIS: When asked if they thought NAIS should be a mandatory system requiring all U.S. cattle producers to participate, 21.22% of respondents said yes, 50.32% said no, and 28.46% were undecided.

07-11-2005, 04:39 AM	#34
SeaSide81 Senior Member+ Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Panhandle of Florida (Hurricane Central as of late!) Posts: 559 Images: 14	I didn't consider a conversation about breeding grade horses to be complaining honestly. I was sharing my thoughts on the matter and inviting others to do the same. And yes, there are some things that can be done about. Don't breed to grade horses if you disapprove. And that is another problem: a lot of the owners just breeding to breed are not taking "** good care of the animals". A lot of people are "puppy mill breeding"; just having foals to have them. People breed for the stupidest reasons under heaven: they thought a baby would be cute, they did not realize that the mare was fertile, they had no idea a two-year-old stud could get a mare pregnant, their kid wanted a baby from their mare but lost interest...the list goes on and on. I think breeding like that is a BIG problem for anyone who cares about horses. If we ever want to stop some of the huge problems with the horse community, we have got to consider it our problem and try to do something about it. I think anyone who breeds should have a license. Yes, a license. You should be required to pay a fee, take some courses on breeding, etc. just something to make it harder for "Joe Anybody" who happens to have a fat, ugly, useless mare with god-awful conformation to breed. I think there should be a fine for any horse not bred by a licensed breeder, unless the mare was purchased bred. Maybe you don't think so and that is just fine, but I think talking and discussing the things that concern us is both helpful and good. It gives you a perspective on what others think and lets you find out more. Maybe I can't do anything all alone, but maybe if I talk with others, discuss idea, and work with them that me because a WE and WE can do something to improve the world just a little. Well, I will get off my soapbox, but I have to remember that speech for when my daughters are old . __________________ A horse gallops with his lungs, Perseveres with his heart, And wins with his character. ~Tesio**

07-11-2005, 08:25 AM	#36
Circle C Senior Member+ Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Meadville, Pennsylvania Posts: 2,992 Images: 59	I thought this thread was good as well. And, (whoever said it), you do have a better chance of getting what you want when you can look back through the generations, but papers still don't mean C rap to me (to be taken lightly). I only have a bout 3 grade horses on the farm. __________________ "Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." ....and yes, I'm pro horse slaughter.

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07-10-2005, 12:20 PM	#33
lucky_pine Senior Member+ Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 5,628 Images: 639 Blog Entries: 14	Another way to see it...people do what people do. Breed grade to grade. We can't do anything about it so why complain? It's their opinion that counts if they're the ones who are doing it. As long as they take **** good care of the animals and know they will have homes then I guess it's fine.

07-11-2005, 08:05 AM	#35
pavilionpony Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 543 Images: 139	I would personally breed a grade mare if she had a nice temperment and conformation. Most of the people I know have grade horses, I see nothing wrong with them at all. Kind of like mutt dogs; some make the best friends ever. To me, you can't ride papers anyway. I'm not into show and all of that, so just my opinion.

07-11-2005, 08:48 AM	#37
lucky_pine Senior Member+ Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 5,628 Images: 639 Blog Entries: 14	"just something to make it harder for "Joe Anybody" who happens to have a fat, ugly, useless mare with god-awful conformation to breed. " Here I disagree. A fat, ugly, useless mare with god-awful conformation can still throw good babies, you never truly know. Maybe that "fat, ugly, useless mare with god-awful conformation" is the fastest horse on the quarter mile track. Maybe she's the best jumper, pleasure horse...barrel horse. You never know how the babies are until you try them. A license is just absurd. What about these people who don't have a license but pleasure ride a stud horse? What if that stud horse gets out and breeds a single mare? Do you want to be fined for your stud jumping a fence, coming untied...maybe even bucking someone off and running to the nearest field and breeding before you can get him? I just don't agree.

07-11-2005, 08:50 AM	#38
lucky_pine Senior Member+ Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 5,628 Images: 639 Blog Entries: 14	Here's something else to consider. Out around in my area theres a house we call the Killer House. There was a murder there about 15 years ago, and things still aren't settled. Until they are, the people who now live in that house have to leave everything that was there before they move in. That includes a pasture full of registered mares and one stud horse. They CANNOT move those horses out of the pasture. Let me say this again...at the time of the murder the stud horse was in the lot with the mares....he still is. HE CANNOT BE MOVED. That means those people who live there would be fined over and over and over again for something they cannot prevent. Now is that fair?

07-11-2005, 11:40 AM	#40
lucky_pine Senior Member+ Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 5,628 Images: 639 Blog Entries: 14	If the grade stallion had the temperment, the look, the color, the talent then you'd better believe I'd breed to him whether he is registered or not. I have an EXCELLANT gelding that isn't registered, and the only reason we didn't keep him a stud is because he had too many of the bloodlines that our mares have. Registering, to me, doesn't really mean much except you can look back at the generations and tell they have a)good blood or b)bad blood. What about these mares that are registered and don't look worth a ****? I've seen grade mares WAY better than some of the registereds I've seen. Heck, our neighbor has a grade mare, they don't even know what breed she is, and she has way better conformation and personality than one of our REGISTERED mares. I'd buy a foal out of her.