Going Barefoot! Week 3 Problems

PeggySue · 07-02-2009, 04:08 PM

a properly applies shoe does not stop the expansion...studies have shown that let me see if I can find them again from UNBIAS sites not farrier or barefoot sites ...

each horse is different if I were to take Sassy's shoes off I would be digging a hole to bury her in within a year...

crayon · 07-02-2009, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeggySue

a properly applies shoe does not stop the expansion...studies have shown that let me see if I can find them again from UNBIAS sites not farrier or barefoot sites ...

each horse is different if I were to take Sassy's shoes off I would be digging a hole to bury her in within a year...

Of course, not all horses are made to go barefoot. Some simply need to have shoes. But then some people might ask a question like "but what if you kept them barefoot right from birth?" I think that with exceptional hoof care, most horses could do that... but there are also some who just aren't built to be barefoot and need shoes for the extra support.

PeggySue · 07-02-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crayon

Of course, not all horses are made to go barefoot. Some simply need to have shoes. But then some people might ask a question like "but what if you kept them barefoot right from birth?" I think that with exceptional hoof care, most horses could do that... but there are also some who just aren't built to be barefoot and need shoes for the extra support.

Sassy was 3yo when I got her and had NEVER been shod ... but had been tender her whole life evenon hard ground and she was trimmed from the time she was a baby... I ASKED... when I started riding her more she came up lame I TRIED to keep her bare and she can't do it

some horses just don't have the genetics to go bare regardless of what some people think ... you don't see Mustangs with bad feet because they get killed early in life only the strongest survive..

crayon · 07-02-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeggySue

Sassy was 3yo when I got her and had NEVER been shod ... but had been tender her whole life evenon hard ground and she was trimmed from the time she was a baby... I ASKED... when I started riding her more she came up lame I TRIED to keep her bare and she can't do it

some horses just don't have the genetics to go bare regardless of what some people think ... you don't see Mustangs with bad feet because they get killed early in life only the strongest survive..

That's the exact point that I'm trying to prove.

I wasn't trying to say that your horse can go barefoot with different hoof care, just that some horses are built so that they can, some not. Basically, genetics like you said.

Dawn · 07-02-2009, 05:23 PM

There's no reason (based on this thread) to assume that this horse can not go barefoot though. It would be completely unfair to judge at this point in time as he's not been given any opportunity to successfully 'transition'. 'Going barefoot' isn't as simple as pulling the shoes off and going on about your day to day life. You have to at least make the effort to give the horse the chance to develop the hoof necessary.

Chiko · 07-02-2009, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn

There's no reason (based on this thread) to assume that this horse can not go barefoot though. It would be completely unfair to judge at this point in time as he's not been given any opportunity to successfully 'transition'. 'Going barefoot' isn't as simple as pulling the shoes off and going on about your day to day life. You have to at least make the effort to give the horse the chance to develop the hoof necessary.

I agree, give your horse 6mos to a year of good barefoot trims before going back to shoes. Just get him some boots in the mean time to alleviate any tenderness from riding on rough terrain.

mftx4 · 07-02-2009, 05:34 PM

Several of us have made that point also, Dawn. Mine are all over 2 years barefoot and my trimmer has quite a time trimmin' those thick hoof walls. Frogs are tough and his knife needs to be really sharp.

Dancers Mom · 07-02-2009, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeggySue

also keep in mind that not all horses can go barefoot and be sound...

I found this out the hard way. I am interested to know why the OP showed her horse the following week if he was sore or she was told he would be sore? Like someone said it could take 6 months or longer to go barefoot. I could not take my girl being miserable so I made the choice to put her shoes back on and she was much happier. I do though think barefoot is best when one can do it.

IIIBarsV · 07-02-2009, 09:26 PM

For one, we have no idea what else might be going on in these hooves because we haven't seen pics of them yet. (Flares, contracted heels, thrushy frog, thin sole, bad transitioning trim to start with, not enough hoofwall on the vertical plane of the hoof, etc etc etc...). There are A LOT of reasons this horse could be sore without his shoes, beyond just "toughening them up".

For two, if the horse has a history of not having the greatest feet in the world, or has worn shoes 24/7 year round for many years, then more care should have been taken to keep him comfortable, or the shoes should have been left in place until the end of the season.

If the horse is unwilling to canter unless very forced, then he should not be competing AT ALL until he either gets his shoes back on or has a few weeks of no riding and time to adjust to his hooves.

You run a SERIOUS risk of causing a long-term problem or never having this horse go sound barefoot by just pulling the shoes and not doing any follow up care whatsoever. Bruising is the major problem here, as well as mechanical laminitis. If he gets bruised enough, he will get sore. When he is sore, he is not moving properly and is compensating in other ways. GOOD MOVEMENT... not just "movement" but GOOD, COMFORTABLE movement is what really makes the difference in hooves and their function.

If this horse has a sore frog, has bruised his frog, etc, and is not landing on his heels, then the hoof is not going to wear properly. This is also going to affect his joints, tendons, and bone structure. Toe-first landings can cause navicular inflammation and navicular disease. You might start with a horse who has good bone structure and no problems, but you'll end up with problems afterwards.

One of the common problems with horses going barefoot is having a thin, flat sole (which may or may not be caused by: poor trimming and sole removal, laminitis, or "just how the horse is"), and the other is a poor, contracted frog and/or heels. In both cases, you should be applying some kind of sole toughener daily, if not multiple times daily. Durasole is the best... but I've had good luck with plain old pine tar. If the frog is closed over in the center in any way, be on the safe side and get some antibacterial/fungal cream and syringe it down in there every day. A poopy frog can account for a lot of discomfort to the horse, and the frog can really make or break an otherwise good-footed horse.

Boots are fantastic (IF THEY FIT.... which unfortunately, they do not always fit), but your horse needed support YESTERDAY. I would be using the "styrofoam protocol" (someone will post the link) right now. I have used Easycare Comfort pads and duct taped them straight on... they did the trick and as long as the duct tape was heavy duty, they stayed on fine.

Odds are your horse's sole is too close to the ground and not strong or thick enough to handle a lot of pressure (this would be why he was having trouble cantering... cantering puts too much pressure and weight on the hooves than he can comfortably and confidently handle right now), so getting some duct taped pads on there will REALLY help him... and put a little more distance between his coffin bone and the rest of the cold, hard ground (and rocks that would love a chance to fracture it)....

Stop riding him... take him out on the soft footings where he's clearly comfortable and walk, trot him as much as he can handle. Do NOT force him to work if he's clearly uncomfortable and cancel any further shows. The bottomline is that you have a lame horse and that horse should be nowhere near a show ring until he is sound again unless you would like to be disqualified. Only ride if he can willingly handle the footing of the pen. If he's comfortable and happy on grass in a field, ride him there, carefully. If you hit a rock, and his sole is not 100%, you could fracture the bones and then you have NO horse.

Do not disregard his attitude. He's telling you that he is SORE. Closely monitor his movement, overall body position, and his personality. Do not push him. You can focus on toughening hooves up on various footings AFTER he is able to w/t/c on the footings he is currently on.

The real bottomline is.... if he's really that sore right now, then he's going to take a minimum of 2 months to be completely sound and rideable. If you do not want to take off your show season, then get his shoes back on. In my experience, if a horse is going to be "just fine" without shoes, then they will walk away sound from a shoe pulling and stay sound, or very least only gimp on a large piece of gravel here and there for a week or two tops.

Your horse isn't walking away sound, which means he's got more going on with his hooves than will correct itself in a week or two.

GotaDunQH · 07-03-2009, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiko

Here is a little bit of info I found on the net:

How do horseshoes cause damage to hooves?
Here in a nutshell is a brief explanation. Firstly, shoeing a horse removes his natural weight bearing hoof mechanism. This happens because the shoe removes the sole, frogs and bars from weight bearing and places all the horses weight on just the hoof walls leaving no support underneath the sole and frogs either. Secondly, when a shoe is applied to the hoof, it is applied when the hoof is in its non-loading or non weight-bearing state.

Just curious...can you cite the website you obtained this info from? It's always helpful to cite the resources from where the info was obtained.

Jennifer

07-02-2009, 04:08 PM	#21
PeggySue Senior Member+ Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Dennison, Illinois Posts: 19,247 Images: 1438 Blog Entries: 15	a properly applies shoe does not stop the expansion...studies have shown that let me see if I can find them again from UNBIAS sites not farrier or barefoot sites ... each horse is different if I were to take Sassy's shoes off I would be digging a hole to bury her in within a year... __________________ *I have been gobbled X7* *Sexy Fairy Man X4* Has no dog in that fight, so please leave me out of it I have enough of my OWN problems Thank you

07-02-2009, 05:23 PM	#25
Dawn Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 37,203 Images: 1580	There's no reason (based on this thread) to assume that this horse can not go barefoot though. It would be completely unfair to judge at this point in time as he's not been given any opportunity to successfully 'transition'. 'Going barefoot' isn't as simple as pulling the shoes off and going on about your day to day life. You have to at least make the effort to give the horse the chance to develop the hoof necessary. __________________ Sexy by Christmas Challenge-r!! Goal: 11 lbs LOST CURRENT: 4 lbs LOST Starting Weight 170 lbs. Goal Weight 155 lbs. Reached! 20 pound club 2009 Starting Weight 152 lbs. Goal Weight 140 lbs. Reached!

07-02-2009, 09:26 PM	#29
IIIBarsV Senior Member+ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada Posts: 3,371 Images: 27	For one, we have no idea what else might be going on in these hooves because we haven't seen pics of them yet. (Flares, contracted heels, thrushy frog, thin sole, bad transitioning trim to start with, not enough hoofwall on the vertical plane of the hoof, etc etc etc...). There are A LOT of reasons this horse could be sore without his shoes, beyond just "toughening them up". For two, if the horse has a history of not having the greatest feet in the world, or has worn shoes 24/7 year round for many years, then more care should have been taken to keep him comfortable, or the shoes should have been left in place until the end of the season. If the horse is unwilling to canter unless very forced, then he should not be competing AT ALL until he either gets his shoes back on or has a few weeks of no riding and time to adjust to his hooves. You run a SERIOUS risk of causing a long-term problem or never having this horse go sound barefoot by just pulling the shoes and not doing any follow up care whatsoever. Bruising is the major problem here, as well as mechanical laminitis. If he gets bruised enough, he will get sore. When he is sore, he is not moving properly and is compensating in other ways. GOOD MOVEMENT... not just "movement" but GOOD, COMFORTABLE movement is what really makes the difference in hooves and their function. If this horse has a sore frog, has bruised his frog, etc, and is not landing on his heels, then the hoof is not going to wear properly. This is also going to affect his joints, tendons, and bone structure. Toe-first landings can cause navicular inflammation and navicular disease. You might start with a horse who has good bone structure and no problems, but you'll end up with problems afterwards. One of the common problems with horses going barefoot is having a thin, flat sole (which may or may not be caused by: poor trimming and sole removal, laminitis, or "just how the horse is"), and the other is a poor, contracted frog and/or heels. In both cases, you should be applying some kind of sole toughener daily, if not multiple times daily. Durasole is the best... but I've had good luck with plain old pine tar. If the frog is closed over in the center in any way, be on the safe side and get some antibacterial/fungal cream and syringe it down in there every day. A poopy frog can account for a lot of discomfort to the horse, and the frog can really make or break an otherwise good-footed horse. Boots are fantastic (IF THEY FIT.... which unfortunately, they do not always fit), but your horse needed support YESTERDAY. I would be using the "styrofoam protocol" (someone will post the link) right now. I have used Easycare Comfort pads and duct taped them straight on... they did the trick and as long as the duct tape was heavy duty, they stayed on fine. Odds are your horse's sole is too close to the ground and not strong or thick enough to handle a lot of pressure (this would be why he was having trouble cantering... cantering puts too much pressure and weight on the hooves than he can comfortably and confidently handle right now), so getting some duct taped pads on there will REALLY help him... and put a little more distance between his coffin bone and the rest of the cold, hard ground (and rocks that would love a chance to fracture it).... Stop riding him... take him out on the soft footings where he's clearly comfortable and walk, trot him as much as he can handle. Do NOT force him to work if he's clearly uncomfortable and cancel any further shows. The bottomline is that you have a lame horse and that horse should be nowhere near a show ring until he is sound again unless you would like to be disqualified. Only ride if he can willingly handle the footing of the pen. If he's comfortable and happy on grass in a field, ride him there, carefully. If you hit a rock, and his sole is not 100%, you could fracture the bones and then you have NO horse. Do not disregard his attitude. He's telling you that he is SORE. Closely monitor his movement, overall body position, and his personality. Do not push him. You can focus on toughening hooves up on various footings AFTER he is able to w/t/c on the footings he is currently on. The real bottomline is.... if he's really that sore right now, then he's going to take a minimum of 2 months to be completely sound and rideable. If you do not want to take off your show season, then get his shoes back on. In my experience, if a horse is going to be "just fine" without shoes, then they will walk away sound from a shoe pulling and stay sound, or very least only gimp on a large piece of gravel here and there for a week or two tops. Your horse isn't walking away sound, which means he's got more going on with his hooves than will correct itself in a week or two. __________________ Three Bars The Fifth Jags Fleeting Rocket Wish I'd Get Lucky Chipped In Stone Zip Code Bay B Suns Eternal Flame

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07-02-2009, 05:34 PM	#27
mftx4 Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Cordova, Ill. Posts: 2,093 Images: 48	Several of us have made that point also, Dawn. Mine are all over 2 years barefoot and my trimmer has quite a time trimmin' those thick hoof walls. Frogs are tough and his knife needs to be really sharp.