[MI Racer]

Originally Posted by Haas Horse Farm

Well I know for a fact that pain is not an issue with my stallion... we always win the warm up. If it is a pain issue it would not matter when you were going in the arena... it would be anytime or any place. That is why I always say check the rider for pain and nerves first. Then check the horse. LOL

BTW My stallion had a total body scan with the vets new xray machine thing and is 100% perfect... Chiro also said there was nothing to adjust. So I think I am safe in knowing what the issues are with my horse.

I wasn't trying to say something was wrong with your stud muffin. Just added reining in there because that is hard on the body like barrels and poles.

[Chasin_3_Cans08]

She sounds like she is burnt out on barrels. and needs to do something differnt.

[faroutfax]

Originally Posted by Chasin_3_Cans08

She sounds like she is burnt out on barrels. and needs to do something differnt.

Barrels is our "something different" She is a pleasure horse. And she gets very varied training too. We do trails, have tried jumping (rather unsucessfully ) abit of dressage, HUS, showmanship, ground driving etc.

She only runs the patterns 5-6 times a year, which is at our shows. And she seems to actually enjoy running the pattern.

[Circle C]

Pain or is tired of work.

[rose1081]

hmm, with mine its just testing her luck to see what she can get away with. going into the ring means work. yes she loves it, but she is a little lazy someitmes and will try her luck. i hope you get it fixed soon! sorry i don't have any great way to fix it thougH!

[Beeks]

When I take my guy to team pennings, he HATE HATE HATES the warm up arena and will do everything horsey possible to keep from going in, BUT, the arena next door where the action really takes place? THAT is a whole nother ball of wax. He can't wait to get in there and stir himself up some calves.

So for him, and maybe for yours, they are just letting you know what they like and what they don't like. Yes he does go into the warm up arena, and once in, does fine but clearly he is trying to tell me, he could do without it.

[BriLeigh]

If your horse is going in fine for performance, then that kind of says to me that either 1. you get more excited and/or tense and your horse picks up on it or 2. your horse just likes performance and doesn't want to run the gaming events. Your horse may like to run, but maybe not necessarily an actual gaming event.

Like mentioned before, it is very hard on them and gaming may make your horse hurt a little. Her back could easily be out and you wouldn't really know it.

I would say get her checked for pain first. You would be better of to be safe when it comes to pain issues. And really try to relax yourself and see if that makes a difference.

My gaming horse won't stand by the gate when it is closed or not our turn but when we are up and the gate is open she walks in just fine.

[IIIBarsV]

1) What bit are you running her in?

2) Do you have a video of you running in the show or at home?

If your training is making the barrel/pole/etc patterns hard for her, she will refuse to go in. Making it hard for her includes taking her too close to the barrels to turn, being rough with your hands, spurring, trying to hold her off the barrels so she won't hit them, making too big of a pocket then slicing the backside of the turn, pulling on her mouth while telling her to go fast, tons of things.

A bit that is not designed to function for turning barrels will also cause problems- shank bits, tom thumbs, ported bits, twisted wire snaffles or double-twisted wire snaffles... these hurt the mouth. Shank bits are not designed for direct-rein turning, so when you pull on one rein to turn the barrel, the bit is applying pressure in all the *wrong* areas and makes it confusing for the horse.

These three areas- Pain, equipment, and training- can all individually or together cause a horse who is reluctant or outright refusing to go in the pen.

If you don't have a video from a show, would you be able to take one at home?

[faroutfax]

Originally Posted by Beeks

When I take my guy to team pennings, he HATE HATE HATES the warm up arena and will do everything horsey possible to keep from going in, BUT, the arena next door where the action really takes place? THAT is a whole nother ball of wax. He can't wait to get in there and stir himself up some calves.

So for him, and maybe for yours, they are just letting you know what they like and what they don't like. Yes he does go into the warm up arena, and once in, does fine but clearly he is trying to tell me, he could do without it.

Could be Like I said she does usually do perfermance, and she naturally has more talent there than with barrels.

If your horse is going in fine for performance, then that kind of says to me that either 1. you get more excited and/or tense and your horse picks up on it or 2. your horse just likes performance and doesn't want to run the gaming events. Your horse may like to run, but maybe not necessarily an actual gaming event.

For pleasure I don't really get nervous anymore. I know it is just such a relaxed class and I can just focus on my horse. And the just goes right in the gate. (it is the game gate and arena as barrels too)

Like mentioned before, it is very hard on them and gaming may make your horse hurt a little. Her back could easily be out and you wouldn't really know it.

I would say get her checked for pain first. You would be better of to be safe when it comes to pain issues. And really try to relax yourself and see if that makes a difference.

Will do Our farrier took a small course in chiropratic for horses (not certified as far as I know but does know how to check a horse). So I can ask her to check her over quick. our next appointment is in a week or two I believe

I have a show comming up this weekend and I'll try just relaxing before we go in.

1) What bit are you running her in?

I ride her in a halter with some reins attached to the halter squares. She rides fine with a bit, but she relaxes more with the halter. Overall both of use prefer to it. And I figure it is much kinder for her if I mess up.

2) Do you have a video of you running in the show or at home?

I don't but I can try and get one at our next show I'm bringing the camera to get pics of our pleasure class anyways

If your training is making the barrel/pole/etc patterns hard for her, she will refuse to go in. Making it hard for her includes taking her too close to the barrels to turn, being rough with your hands, spurring, trying to hold her off the barrels so she won't hit them, making too big of a pocket then slicing the backside of the turn, pulling on her mouth while telling her to go fast, tons of things.

Right now we are still going very slow, focusing on having a pretty pattern rather than a fast one. We still trot around the barrels and we are having a really good day if we don't brake to the trot during our poles. I let her pick how fast she really wants to run, if she needs/wants to trot through the poles that's fine with me.

LOL Right now we are waaay out of our league with the people we compete against, but it is just for fun. We went up an extra level for the performance and had to do the same for gaming.

A bit that is not designed to function for turning barrels will also cause problems- shank bits, tom thumbs, ported bits, twisted wire snaffles or double-twisted wire snaffles... these hurt the mouth. Shank bits are not designed for direct-rein turning, so when you pull on one rein to turn the barrel, the bit is applying pressure in all the *wrong* areas and makes it confusing for the horse.

I'm not sure how great a halter is for barrels (it seems to work LOL).

[IIIBarsV]

Depends on how broke she is to the halter

I prefer either a full cheek smooth-mouth snaffle, or a combination bit called "the upside down bit" or the "Hodges Futurity Bit". It is great for very well-broke horses who need pressure spread over a wider area than just their mouth, and don't like curb pressure. My sister likes the S hackamore, which is mostly nose pressure with a little bit of curb pressure depending on how tight the curb strap is. The Hodges bit is great for horses who are sensitive and light-mouthed, and well broke to the rest of your body. I see other people ride in it with less trained horses and less soft hands, and the results aren't the same.

I use the full cheek for basic training, but also am planning on running it on a 10 yr old barrel gelding who basically fears the curb strap. He is very light and soft in the full cheek, I don't have to yank on it or anything (this was a horse who was running away in a 8" shank medium correction port ). The pressure application is a bit tricky to set the horse up just right for barrels... they need to have leg aides down pat and some seat stuff going on as well, and some neck reining/indirect inside rein.

Downsides of the halter is that she may lean her inside shoulder or not flex vertically/collect as well because it's not as "there" as a bit, which could cause some uncomfortable balance problems while she's turning if she's falling out of balance somewhere.

It's unusual for a horse who's just trotting and loping to not want to go in the ring. This leads me to suspect she may have something uncomfortable in her body that only shows up when she's turning a barrel, but won't show up as outright "soreness".

The other possibility is that she may be falling out, if you're overturning the barrel on one direct rein (ie, neck and shoulder out of alignment during the turn, which is a typical "green barrel horse" thing- ideally, we want the neck and shoulders aligned in a smooth line, with the nose tipped in a little, and the reins kind of "neckreining" the horse around the barrel, lightly guiding so they can keep themselves in alignment.

Here's an example of what I mean by alignment (below). The nose is looking, but the poll, neck, shoulders and back are all aligned and moving together.


A horse who is continuously pushed out of alignment, over turned, overbent, or counter-bent, even at slow speeds, can become sick of it and uncomfortable, even sore. It puts stress on joints, ligaments and muscles in an uncomfortable way, and can cause stiffness or strains. Eventually the horse will cheat and start knocking barrels, stiffening up, going on the forehand, rating too much, slowing down, losing momentum.

If you're dropping a hand to the horn, don't. Ride two-handed with flexible elbows, elastic relaxed contact, and "guide" the horse around the barrel (two hands!), with a combination of neckreining, direct reining, and legs. I like to actually throw my hands forward coming out of the turn to give the horse it's head. Staying two-handed allows you to retain control, so you don't have to scramble to set up properly for the approach.

Oh, jees, I almost forgot. What saddle are you in? A western pleasure show saddle or a saddle with a skirt length of 25"+ might be biting her in the hips during the turn or preventing her from bending through her body (kind of like running in big rubber work boots). And that would do it. Have the chiro pay special attention to her hip and loins.