Genetic People Come in here, Youre help is needed!

Bluwind_Acres · 07-15-2007, 10:44 AM

Yes her black hair is BLACK and her 'white' hair is SILVER or a light grey. on her colt his mane and tail is coming in JET black not 'mixed' as a flaxen would its solid jet black. not dark red not dark broke. Im a part time artist and I can hold up a swatch of my coal black to the black hair of both mare and colt and they MATCH (wow thats an old ad, i didnt even know I had a ad on that site) The filly shows no hints of anything smutty or silver. however the colt is turning some wild color. the father of the filly was a black homozygous tobiano. Bea had 2 blacks and a bay with him. I believe the filly i own is carrying the sabino too, her markings are 'melting' what used to be perfect markings and one 'smudge spot' is now turning to afew 'smudge' spots its like the white is spilling over onto her main coloring. so I have no idea whats going on. really Im not having any of them tested unless a buyer pays to have her tested then she will get tested otherwise im not putting any extra money into her.

thanks
Bluwind Acres

Bodi · 07-15-2007, 10:53 AM

The reason I don't think she is silver is because her legs are too light. I think she has a lot of sootiness going on. Yes, red based horses can have black hair come in. They can come so dark they can fool you into thinking they are black based with agouti on top. I sincerely think this is just in the end a chestnut mare. Also having no silver offspring when the black gene was thrown in there, while that doesn't seal the deal it continues to make me think she doesn't have the silver gene to throw anyways. So unless the new owners are looking for silver, I wouldn't worry about it. Only if they were would I then consider testing.

Haas Horse Farm · 07-15-2007, 11:25 PM

I am looking for silver but I have not been able to get any good information on the sire or dam of this horse in question to determine if there is even a remote possiblity of the gene.

My point about the black was totally missed ... as JB said chestnut horses cannot show any silver gene so the black and silver you are seeing on this mare is not due to the silver gene if she is indeed chestnut! Does that make sense?

A photo of her sire and dam would greatly help clear this whole matter up.

Haas Horse Farm · 07-15-2007, 11:41 PM

This is one of my favorite examples of liver chestnut ... LOL

Rockytop · 07-16-2007, 12:09 AM

It's not uncommon to confuse dark chestnuts with bays, although usually the dead give-away is the lack of black stockings, with the exception of the wild bays.

Heck, one of my Paint mares is misregistered as a "bay tobiano", but you won't find a true black hair on her....just some incredibly dark browns.

It's an easy mistake, especially when given how goofy foal coats can look as they begin to change from their "baby fuzz".

The mare Miss Bar U Badlands pictured below is one of the first AQHA recognised silver bays. Very different in colour from your horse, who appears to be more likely a countershaded (sooty/smutty) chestnut with pangare.

Here's a link to the mare owner's webpage if you'd like to view other pictures of her.
DIAMOND N QUARTER HORSES

Here's a link to a very informative site about horse colours...I linked to the page on chestnuts and sorrels, as there's a part that relates to the silver gene's inablitly to dilute red pigment.
Equine Color - Horse & Pony Color Genetics Information

Hope this helps with you quest to discover more about your horse's colour. She's very striking.

Last minute link (this one is excellent):
The Silver Dapple Morgans Project

Take care.

Haas Horse Farm · 07-16-2007, 12:42 AM

See how dark her legs are? That right there is why I say the OPs horse has to be chestnut. The legs on the OP horse are light.. too light for a bay silver. I also think it is wrong to list a horse in an advertisement for a color that is not on the papers.

IMHO she is chestnut until proven otherwise. Her pedigree says that and her registration papers say that and she looks like a chestnut with sooty pangre. To me until there is more proof she should be listed as papered because this is not a case where the color choice is not available or clearly wrong.

Quarter Horse Horse for Sale in Limestone, Michigan Color wrong $1500
Aqha Family/trail/gaming Mare Color wrong $1800
Horseville - Smutty Chestnut AQHA Mare - Ad #093853 This ad is correct on color but the price is different once again $2500
Bluwind Acres No color or price...
AQHA riding mare
Color wrong Price $1500

You as the owner should know what you are selling. If there is any question you should err on the side of common sense and go with what the breed registry says. Sorry this just really upsets me. I have tried very hard to figure out if there is any possible way this mare could be a silver gene carrier. I honestly cannot find it.

As a breeder almost all my offspring are parentage verified and if there is any question color tested to know. I feel that I owe that to a buyer. I am guaranteeing the color and the papers to be correct.

Given the great difference in price and that I cannot find any information anywhere om her offspring... Are they all grade? I could not find a photo of the stallion she was bred to.... then or in 2006... I just do not think your mare is what I am looking for... even if she was the right color.

Top Dun · 07-16-2007, 06:56 AM

Absolutely!! I totally agree with this. just because she LOOKs like she MIGHT be a silver does not mean she is really that color. If you refuse to DNA test her then you should be advertising her as a chestnut/sorrel as her papers state. To advertize as another color is basically false advertizing.

based on the "rareness" of the silver gene in the QH lines, it's only slightly possible that she carries the gene in the first place. If I were a buyer I'd be demanding proof of her color before I even considered buying AND I surely would not pay for it either. If you want to advertise her as a silver, you had better have proof that she is a silver in hand when a buyer asks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haas Horse Farm

IMHO she is chestnut until proven otherwise. Her pedigree says that and her registration papers say that and she looks like a chestnut with sooty pangre. To me until there is more proof she should be listed as papered because this is not a case where the color choice is not available or clearly wrong.

You as the owner should know what you are selling. If there is any question you should err on the side of common sense and go with what the breed registry says. Sorry this just really upsets me. I have tried very hard to figure out if there is any possible way this mare could be a silver gene carrier. I honestly cannot find it.

As a breeder almost all my offspring are parentage verified and if there is any question color tested to know. I feel that I owe that to a buyer. I am guaranteeing the color and the papers to be correct.

Tydyecowgrrl · 07-16-2007, 07:41 AM

My Friend has a TWH that looks just like that... she's golden Sorrel, with creamy silver legs and has a flaxen and silver mane and tail... Plus the dark webbing all over her legs and rump?

She just calls her a sorral w/flaxen?

That horse is really neat.

Jennifer

Bluwind_Acres · 07-16-2007, 10:09 PM

The reason for the prices is that my little sister she's 14 and wants to help sell bea so I told her I want 1500 minimim (months ago) so I said anything over that she can keep. SOME of those ads, if you look havent been updated in many many months. Ive given up basiclly selling her online.

ok then here are pics of her foals the sire... was an UGLY 'homzygous tobiano' he was black and supposedly had two black out of her previous to me owning her. then I got a bay, just my luck lol. he was cow hocked more than any cow i'd ever seen and he belonged to be a gelding and his breeder needed to be uthinized. its possible he was a BAY and not a black though cause he had winter fur on when i seen him and he looked black. so here are pics of her 2006 foal (Kytt) then her 2007 foal (Lee) and his sire (Spinner). now the colt's sire is a smutty buckskin as was HIS father. the colt, has BAY or some shade of dark chestnut around the eyes he has the counter shading on his back, the back of his legs are going almost black all of his little 'scuff's are all coming in different colors ranging from black to dark red to Light silvery brown and he also seems to be getting that silver look around his muzzle. so here are pics of him after being worked so he was a little sweaty. I can get recent ones if needed just lemme know.

this is Lee at 2 months this is his dad

This here is her 2006 foal-kytt

diamondn · 07-20-2007, 08:26 AM

I do not think this mare is a silver.
She to me is a chestnut

If you look at the picture of Roxy with her dark legs and also if you look at her mane the silver is only on the tips and goes up into black along the mane equally. Not one hair is silver all the way up.
This mare has silver all the way up on many strands and no silver on others. Silver will express on each hair in the mane and tail.

07-16-2007, 12:09 AM	#25
Rockytop Senior Member+ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Beautiful Peace River Country, BC Posts: 506	It's not uncommon to confuse dark chestnuts with bays, although usually the dead give-away is the lack of black stockings, with the exception of the wild bays. Heck, one of my Paint mares is misregistered as a "bay tobiano", but you won't find a true black hair on her....just some incredibly dark browns. It's an easy mistake, especially when given how goofy foal coats can look as they begin to change from their "baby fuzz". The mare Miss Bar U Badlands pictured below is one of the first AQHA recognised silver bays. Very different in colour from your horse, who appears to be more likely a countershaded (sooty/smutty) chestnut with pangare. Here's a link to the mare owner's webpage if you'd like to view other pictures of her. DIAMOND N QUARTER HORSES Here's a link to a very informative site about horse colours...I linked to the page on chestnuts and sorrels, as there's a part that relates to the silver gene's inablitly to dilute red pigment. Equine Color - Horse & Pony Color Genetics Information Hope this helps with you quest to discover more about your horse's colour. She's very striking. Last minute link (this one is excellent): The Silver Dapple Morgans Project Take care. Last edited by Rockytop; 07-16-2007 at 12:39 AM. Reason: Found a really cool site to link!

07-16-2007, 07:41 AM	#28
Tydyecowgrrl Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 967 Images: 24	re My Friend has a TWH that looks just like that... she's golden Sorrel, with creamy silver legs and has a flaxen and silver mane and tail... Plus the dark webbing all over her legs and rump? She just calls her a sorral w/flaxen? That horse is really neat. Jennifer

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07-15-2007, 10:44 AM	#21
Bluwind_Acres Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Wisconsin but Making my Way Back Home to MI Posts: 1,511 Images: 138 Blog Entries: 1	Yes her black hair is BLACK and her 'white' hair is SILVER or a light grey. on her colt his mane and tail is coming in JET black not 'mixed' as a flaxen would its solid jet black. not dark red not dark broke. Im a part time artist and I can hold up a swatch of my coal black to the black hair of both mare and colt and they MATCH (wow thats an old ad, i didnt even know I had a ad on that site) The filly shows no hints of anything smutty or silver. however the colt is turning some wild color. the father of the filly was a black homozygous tobiano. Bea had 2 blacks and a bay with him. I believe the filly i own is carrying the sabino too, her markings are 'melting' what used to be perfect markings and one 'smudge spot' is now turning to afew 'smudge' spots its like the white is spilling over onto her main coloring. so I have no idea whats going on. really Im not having any of them tested unless a buyer pays to have her tested then she will get tested otherwise im not putting any extra money into her. thanks Bluwind Acres

07-16-2007, 10:09 PM	#29
Bluwind_Acres Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Wisconsin but Making my Way Back Home to MI Posts: 1,511 Images: 138 Blog Entries: 1	The reason for the prices is that my little sister she's 14 and wants to help sell bea so I told her I want 1500 minimim (months ago) so I said anything over that she can keep. SOME of those ads, if you look havent been updated in many many months. Ive given up basiclly selling her online. ok then here are pics of her foals the sire... was an UGLY 'homzygous tobiano' he was black and supposedly had two black out of her previous to me owning her. then I got a bay, just my luck lol. he was cow hocked more than any cow i'd ever seen and he belonged to be a gelding and his breeder needed to be uthinized. its possible he was a BAY and not a black though cause he had winter fur on when i seen him and he looked black. so here are pics of her 2006 foal (Kytt) then her 2007 foal (Lee) and his sire (Spinner). now the colt's sire is a smutty buckskin as was HIS father. the colt, has BAY or some shade of dark chestnut around the eyes he has the counter shading on his back, the back of his legs are going almost black all of his little 'scuff's are all coming in different colors ranging from black to dark red to Light silvery brown and he also seems to be getting that silver look around his muzzle. so here are pics of him after being worked so he was a little sweaty. I can get recent ones if needed just lemme know. this is Lee at 2 months this is his dad This here is her 2006 foal-kytt

07-20-2007, 08:26 AM	#30
diamondn Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 6 Images: 3	I do not think this mare is a silver. She to me is a chestnut If you look at the picture of Roxy with her dark legs and also if you look at her mane the silver is only on the tips and goes up into black along the mane equally. Not one hair is silver all the way up. This mare has silver all the way up on many strands and no silver on others. Silver will express on each hair in the mane and tail.