[Lou3]

Originally Posted by Huntseat

Couldn't agree MORE with these two posts!



And I couldn't DISAGREE more with this one! If your knees and back are two weak for english gaming, I certainly wouldn't try western gaming.

I can still run a set of poles in a winning time without any ill effects whatsoever.
Last i checked barrel racing doesnt involve jumping off the horse at flat out gallop (and I am being literal here). Its like the difference between grand prix showjumping on a horse on nice soft grass and jumping those enormous fences yourself using a springboard to get you over them and landing on concrete.

[BlingRacer]

Originally Posted by Lou3

Yes because a horse that is trained that she must be in FRONT of the other horses at all times is really going to be bored in a ring with twenty or so other horses? Cant have it both ways, she was trained to be a racing pony why would I be so cruel as to suddenly say to her "okay you have to be behind all these other horses today?"

To make an all around well behaved animal who doesn't contribute to negative stereotypes.

I would personally be embarrassed if my horse was acting a fool outside the arena and contributing to the overly prominent negative stereotypes about gaming horses.

You most certainly can have it both ways. Every one of my barrel horses did either WP or reining, plus western horsemanship and trail. They didn't always win but they most certainly didn't make donkeys of themselves.

[Lou3]

Originally Posted by BlingRacer

To make an all around well behaved animal who doesn't contribute to negative stereotypes.

I would personally be embarrassed if my horse was acting a fool outside the arena and contributing to the overly prominent negative stereotypes about gaming horses.

You most certainly can have it both ways. Every one of my barrel horses did either WP or reining, plus western horsemanship and trail. They didn't always win but they most certainly didn't make donkey's of themselves.

Which is why I warmed her up the same way for every competition so she didnt get over excited and then just walked round either in hand or with my feet out the stirrups and my hand on the buckle of the rein so she knew it wasnt "work" time and practically fell asleep. Since she had the best ground manners of every horse I have EVER worked with, all anybody saw was a nice quiet horse wandering around the showring with a considerate rider who wasnt trotting and cantering up and down the show ground all day tiring the horse out but letting their well behaved spook-free horse have a rest between classes while theirs all freaked out at the loudspeaker or the tape used to mark out the rings or had to be lunged for half an hour before they were even calm enough for the rider to get on without bucking them off.

[xlilxonex]

Originally Posted by Lou3

Yes because a horse that is trained that she must be in FRONT of the other horses at all times is really going to be bored in a ring with twenty or so other horses? Cant have it both ways, she was trained to be a racing pony why would I be so cruel as to suddenly say to her "okay you have to be behind all these other horses today?"

Sorry, but if you can't get your horse to do that...Then you fit RIGHT in with the stereotype....

Yes, you can have it both ways and it's not cruel. What a ridiculous statement... It's a HORSE, your the rider.. If your horse was so well trained then you could of gone in there and held your own.... It's an equitation class for heavens sakes... Your horse doesn't have to be a top notch hunter mover to win those.... If you can't take your gaming horse in a flat class and make it behave and be in contest for a ribbon(any ribbon...) than it's not that well trained and behaved..

[Serenity06]

Originally Posted by Lou3

Is your horse a WORLD champion? Are you?
If not then it comes down to the fact that quite simply you do not understand the type of horse required to reach that level. You could do anything with my mare from the ground - a 2 year old could handle her. Put her in the competition ring and ANYONE could ride her. Confuse her and stress her out by trying to make her do something that she knew fine well was NOT her job and yes expect trouble. She would walk into the ring, she would walk out of the ring perfectly relaxed and happy - because she knew the drill and knew thats what was supposed to happen. She also won almost every jumping class I ever entered her into so she was perfectly versatile. If a gaming horse doesnt have a little of that fire in its belly then its simply not going to be good enough to win. At least in the English gaming ring. My mare was firmly of the opinion that she was far too good to trot in circles - and given her outstanding performance record I agreed. MOST english gaming ponies are ponies that have been rejected as too "crazy" for anything else because the riders in other disciplines simply dont know how to handle them and cant channel their energy and spirit in any useful direction. The horse ends up with a bad reputation as a "nut job" and then a couple of years later a half decent games rider has turned it into a winner worth tens of thousands of pounds. All that says is that it takes a certain type of pony to make a good games pony and unfortunately that is a type of pony that those that ride in other disciplines simply dont have the skill to handle.

Ok i was being nice before but if you want to get snotty then lets get snotty.

DON'T YOU EVER EVER EVER ASSUME SOMEBODY YOU DO NOT KNOW AND KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THAT THEY CAN'T HANDLE A TOP NOTCH GAMING HORSE!!! Yes i can and i have, i have ridden quite a few top notch horses owned by a trainer i know and what's that? OMG!! They are calm outside the arena and in the arena?!?!!? No way!!! Yes it is possible to have a well trained horse but since you don't care if yours is versatile because she's a "world champion" then more power to you sweety.

No i'm not a world champion, wanna know why? Because right now i don't have the MONEY to compete at the level i would need to become that and my horse is ONLY 3 so no i'm NOT pushing her hard and next year she will not be pushed hard but she WILL be competeing. Does my horse have "fire" in her belly to go fast oh you better believe it. If i DON'T make her listen and slow her down when she starts to not pay attention and get over excited will she turn into one of those "psycho" horses, you better fricken believe she would! My horse has what it takes to be great but i'm NOT blowing her mind with JUST gaming training, before she competes she has to learn how to handle herself, stay supple, listen 100%, do what i ASK even if it mean trotting or SLOW loping the gaming patterns, and above all to NEVER EVER be gate sour or loose control. Her last time only was 5 SECONDS off the 1D times and that was the VERY FIRST TIME i had let her go faster then a slow lope and she was by NO MEANS RUNNING ALL OUT YET!

Does that mean she's not world champion quality h*ll no!!! You know what it DOES MEAN? That i ACTUALLY CARE how my horse is trained and how she acts OUTSIDE the arena!!! If i ask my horse to be behind horses in a boring rail class then by golly she's going to do it because it's all haveing a horse that respects the rider and can do WHATEVER is asked of it! Your mare is a world champion and that's awesome but it doesn't mean she's well trained sorry. My mom showed Class A arabians in show jumping and hunt/jump when she was younger and i learned to jump also, yes i HAVE seen some VERY POORLY trained show jumpers that APPEAR to be well trained. In ANY disapline there will be horses that ARE NOT trained properly and should NOT be competeing but its NOT the horses fault.

World Champion barrel racers with what's that? OMG A VESITILE, CALM OUTSIDE THE ARENA HORSE!!!! NO WAY IS THAT A WORLD CHAMPION HORSE!!! Sorry i couldn't help my self guys lol.

Martha Josey
Charmane James
Lance Graves
Lynn McKenzie
Lindsey Spears
and there's plenty more.............

[doublebarr]

You guys do realize you are arguing over a thread that was from 2005?

And I totally "get" what Lou is saying 100%. Unfortunatly Lou, you are dealing with a closed mentality. Until and unless they understand "english gaming" they will never get it. Too bad.

[Serenity06]

Originally Posted by doublebarr

You guys do realize you are arguing over a thread that was from 2005?

And I totally "get" what Lou is saying 100%. Unfortunatly Lou, you are dealing with a closed mentality. Until and unless they understand "english gaming" they will never get it. Too bad.

Ok fist off the close mindeness comes when somebody thinks a horse is only good at or can only do one thing (gaming). Open mindedness is when people ar ewilling to realize that horse are VERSATILE animals and with TRAINING can do multiple things.

[shepherd406]

Martha Joey offered $17,000 for a horse that one of my friends rode in her clinic. He still has her. Haha.

Anyways.....were there any American teams at this world championship of english gaming? Just curious

[doublebarr]

Originally Posted by Lou3

It varies.
I had one games pony i could NOT ride outside a competition ring, she was 100% WORK as soon as that saddle went on and if she didnt know what she was meant to be doing she got very stressed out. Put her in a ring with poles or a jumping course and she was like a different pony. She was quiet as a mouse in the stable and her ground manners were perfect so there's no excuse for that but yes a games pony/horse with a "work work work" attitude can be expected to be a bit crazy under saddle simply because they know their job and if they arent doing their job they dont understand why not - they've got the saddle on after all.
In my experience there are few very "top" games ponies that DONT have this "work, Work work" attitude. There are a few but they are few. For lower levels you can be easily be very successful on an all-round horse/pony but at top levels you need more of a specialist.

Originally Posted by Lou3

This isnt always true, my world champion mare WAS pretty much unridable outside a competition ring, but inside that ring, she listened, she was supple, she was calm and she did the job better than any other horse in the world (literally). The type of horse that makes the best english gaming horse is the type of horse that has to have a job ALL the time. They want to learn and once they know their job they want to be doing it constantly. Doesnt mean they cant have more than one job my mare showjumped exceptionally well too.
Maybe English gaming is different, a barrel horse learns the barrels and thats the only event they do, an english gaming horse has to be much more versatile within their own "job" there are some races that require a steady even rhythm, some that require fast stops and starts and yes there are some that just require flat out speed. The horse has to be trained within an inch of its life to be able to do each race perfectly. However that doesnt necessarily translate to outside the arena. I have no doubt that my mare was partly just in a huff cause she wasnt doing her job if I tried to ride and not game or jump. Put up a course of jumps and she would trot round them without a problem, but try and trot her in a circle without a jump or a gaming pole in sight and that was the end of the world for her. Totally out of her comfort zone and not something she was prepared to do. The mare won world championships and was the quietest, easiest horse to handle I have ever met, no problem to me to cut her some slack and not stress her out by trying to force her to do things she just didnt like to do.

Originally Posted by Lou3

Is your horse a WORLD champion? Are you?
If not then it comes down to the fact that quite simply you do not understand the type of horse required to reach that level. You could do anything with my mare from the ground - a 2 year old could handle her. Put her in the competition ring and ANYONE could ride her.She would walk into the ring, she would walk out of the ring perfectly relaxed and happy - because she knew the drill and knew thats what was supposed to happen. She also won almost every jumping class I ever entered her into so she was perfectly versatile. Confuse her and stress her out by trying to make her do something that she knew fine well was NOT her job and yes expect trouble. If a gaming horse doesnt have a little of that fire in its belly then its simply not going to be good enough to win. At least in the English gaming ring. My mare was firmly of the opinion that she was far too good to trot in circles - and given her outstanding performance record I agreed. MOST english gaming ponies are ponies that have been rejected as too "crazy" for anything else because the riders in other disciplines simply dont know how to handle them and cant channel their energy and spirit in any useful direction. The horse ends up with a bad reputation as a "nut job" and then a couple of years later a half decent games rider has turned it into a winner worth tens of thousands of pounds. All that says is that it takes a certain type of pony to make a good games pony and unfortunately that is a type of pony that those that ride in other disciplines simply dont have the skill to handle.

Originally Posted by Lou3

1998 world champion team mounted games held in Sweden
2000 world pairs championships finalist mounted games held in the UK
She died in 2001
Never managed to burn her out, she LIVED for the competition ring, loved it. Its true though that English gaming is a very different kettle of fish to western barrels and poles - there are nearly a hundred different games and every horse has to be foot perfect in every game, not to mention your position in the running order can change the requirements of the game totally in the tem and pairs events - its hard to get bored, they have to learn to follow the flag, be first off the line, put in that extra 10% when another horse is a nose in front, read the rider through all the stunts the have to perform, get used to all sorts of equipment including 6ft lances flying around all over the place, be utterly fearless when another horse approaches them head-on at a gallop for a changeover, its much more mentally demanding for a horse than learning one barrel pattern and running it over and over again. She showjumped too, very successfully.

Originally Posted by Lou3

And english gamers are PROUD of the fact that we have the skills to ride horses riders in other events cant handle and turn them into champions.

Why should I MAKE the horse do something its not suited for when in the ring she listened to my every command, performed flawlessly and was easily the best behaved horse in there? Not to mention she was a total sweetheart to handle and never gave us a moment's bother. At the time I owned her we lived on a buys main road with no off-road riding at all so trail riding her wasnt an option as she had an accident before I got her which left her terrified of traffic.

And yes for me entering equitation classes is the biggest waste of time ever - because its the most BORING experience I've ever had in my life. If I was focussed on winning I would have bought a nice packer horse and entered equitation classes all the time because I won hundreds of the darn things before I put my foot down and refused to ride in them any more. I certainly wouldnt have used my last two competitive seasons before I went to uni riding with the worst team in the league purely because they were my friends and we had fun riding together.

And did you miss where I said she was also a spectacular showjumper. When you can almost literally control where the horse places every single foot the whole way round a course there isnt a whole lot wrong with its training

This was at the same time I was one day eventing at area level on a pony I had broken and trained myself and coming out with the highest dressage score in every single event (and yes we went three whole seasons without ONCE being beaten in the dressage phase) and therefore winning almost all of them, barring the odd pole coming down in the showjumping phase (which I think happened twice).

Originally Posted by Lou3

Which is why I warmed her up the same way for every competition so she didnt get over excited and then just walked round either in hand or with my feet out the stirrups and my hand on the buckle of the rein so she knew it wasnt "work" time and practically fell asleep. Since she had the best ground manners of every horse I have EVER worked with, all anybody saw was a nice quiet horse wandering around the showring with a considerate rider who wasnt trotting and cantering up and down the show ground all day tiring the horse out but letting their well behaved spook-free horse have a rest between classes while theirs all freaked out at the loudspeaker or the tape used to mark out the rings or had to be lunged for half an hour before they were even calm enough for the rider to get on without bucking them off.

Please re-read for the entire point you have completely missed because you have closed off your mind and made it up that she called games horses "crazy". Sounds like a VERY well trained horse to me. Did you miss the point that she showjumped successfully also??? Hello!

[Serenity06]

Originally Posted by doublebarr

Please re-read for the entire point you have completely missed because you have closed off your mind and made it up that she called games horses "crazy". Sounds like a VERY well trained horse to me. Did you miss the point that she showjumped successfully also??? Hello!

I did read her entire posts. In the same posts she is saying that its not fair to have a horse that was trained to be in the lead to do rail classes, says that her horse IS uncontrolable doing basic things like trotting in circles (yeah trained awesome), and that GOOD gamers are onle good for speed events. I'm not saying her horse isn't ill trained i'm speaking in general for the people who believe a GOOD gaming horse is too uncontrollable to do anything but or that ALL or even MOST gaming horses and too hot for anything else. A well trained horse can do the basics, like trotting in boring circles, WITHOUT putting up a fuss. Sorry.