[EVOO]

Originally Posted by Lou3

Totally out of her comfort zone and not something she was prepared to do.

Everything we ask a horse to do is initially out of its comfort zone. How the horse reacts is independent to its personality, the situation and how we ask it. It's our job as owners/trainers to adjust the situation to help the horse become comfortable and to prepare them to perform properly.

You keep saying; no, no, no everyone is wrong some horses just can't do anything but game and are a bit hot to ride elsewhere. But in the next breath you confirm what everyone else is saying. Yes, you're right some horses are hot and some horses CAN only game. Not because they literally CANNOT do anything else however, because they have not been prepared and trained to do so -- either as a result of a lack of training or an accumulation of the wrong type of training.

[Serenity06]

Originally Posted by Lou3

This isnt always true, my world champion mare WAS pretty much unridable outside a competition ring, but inside that ring, she listened, she was supple, she was calm and she did the job better than any other horse in the world (literally). The type of horse that makes the best english gaming horse is the type of horse that has to have a job ALL the time. They want to learn and once they know their job they want to be doing it constantly. Doesnt mean they cant have more than one job my mare showjumped exceptionally well too.
Maybe English gaming is different, a barrel horse learns the barrels and thats the only event they do, an english gaming horse has to be much more versatile within their own "job" there are some races that require a steady even rhythm, some that require fast stops and starts and yes there are some that just require flat out speed. The horse has to be trained within an inch of its life to be able to do each race perfectly. However that doesnt necessarily translate to outside the arena. I have no doubt that my mare was partly just in a huff cause she wasnt doing her job if I tried to ride and not game or jump. Put up a course of jumps and she would trot round them without a problem, but try and trot her in a circle without a jump or a gaming pole in sight and that was the end of the world for her. Totally out of her comfort zone and not something she was prepared to do. The mare won world championships and was the quietest, easiest horse to handle I have ever met, no problem to me to cut her some slack and not stress her out by trying to force her to do things she just didnt like to do.

This is the way of thinking that has so many people believeing that barrel horses can ONLY run around a stupid fricken barrel and that's it. If your horse isn't controlable OUTSIDE the arena and doing BASIC things then they SHOULD NOT BE GAMING!!!! PERIOD!!!!! I'm glad your mare won for you but it was her lack of training that made her uncontrollable "outside her comfort zone".

Any horse CAN spaz out "outside their comfort zone" but its the ones that have the FOUNDATION in their training that WILL handle things better and LISTEN better and make better ALL AROUND horses!!!

Sorry but again this subject REALLY gets to me because i DO barrel race and my horse IS NOT a nut case and LISTENS VERY VERY WELL!

[xlilxonex]

Originally Posted by Serenity06

This is the way of thinking that has so many people believeing that barrel horses can ONLY run around a stupid fricken barrel and that's it. If your horse isn't controlable OUTSIDE the arena and doing BASIC things then they SHOULD NOT BE GAMING!!!! PERIOD!!!!! I'm glad your mare won for you but it was her lack of training that made her uncontrollable "outside her comfort zone".

Any horse CAN spaz out "outside their comfort zone" but its the ones that have the FOUNDATION in their training that WILL handle things better and LISTEN better and make better ALL AROUND horses!!!

Sorry but again this subject REALLY gets to me because i DO barrel race and my horse IS NOT a nut case and LISTENS VERY VERY WELL!

Thank you!!!

[Lou3]

Originally Posted by Serenity06

This is the way of thinking that has so many people believeing that barrel horses can ONLY run around a stupid fricken barrel and that's it. If your horse isn't controlable OUTSIDE the arena and doing BASIC things then they SHOULD NOT BE GAMING!!!! PERIOD!!!!! I'm glad your mare won for you but it was her lack of training that made her uncontrollable "outside her comfort zone".

Any horse CAN spaz out "outside their comfort zone" but its the ones that have the FOUNDATION in their training that WILL handle things better and LISTEN better and make better ALL AROUND horses!!!

Sorry but again this subject REALLY gets to me because i DO barrel race and my horse IS NOT a nut case and LISTENS VERY VERY WELL!

Is your horse a WORLD champion? Are you?
If not then it comes down to the fact that quite simply you do not understand the type of horse required to reach that level. You could do anything with my mare from the ground - a 2 year old could handle her. Put her in the competition ring and ANYONE could ride her. Confuse her and stress her out by trying to make her do something that she knew fine well was NOT her job and yes expect trouble. She would walk into the ring, she would walk out of the ring perfectly relaxed and happy - because she knew the drill and knew thats what was supposed to happen. She also won almost every jumping class I ever entered her into so she was perfectly versatile. If a gaming horse doesnt have a little of that fire in its belly then its simply not going to be good enough to win. At least in the English gaming ring. My mare was firmly of the opinion that she was far too good to trot in circles - and given her outstanding performance record I agreed. MOST english gaming ponies are ponies that have been rejected as too "crazy" for anything else because the riders in other disciplines simply dont know how to handle them and cant channel their energy and spirit in any useful direction. The horse ends up with a bad reputation as a "nut job" and then a couple of years later a half decent games rider has turned it into a winner worth tens of thousands of pounds. All that says is that it takes a certain type of pony to make a good games pony and unfortunately that is a type of pony that those that ride in other disciplines simply dont have the skill to handle.

[shepherd406]

World Champion in what? I've seen a lot of horses that have qualified & placed for the world in NBHA. A horse can be prefectly calm & collected & a good horse inside the ring & out, & still run a good time. Martha Josey offered almost $20,000 for one of the horses at the ranch. A few people have offered over $23,000 for one of Bobby's mares. She has qualified for the world & she's Bobby's best roping/cow horse. Neither of those mares, like the rest of our horses, freak out at anytime outside of the ring. They may not be the best trail mount, but that's just because they don't go on the trail, but the can ride in the ring with the other horses just riding or working cows & they're fine.

I understand that most of the high dollar barrel/pole horses are used JUST for barrels & poles bc people get overly serious about it & overwork their horses. Any good trainer will tell you. You HAVE to switch it up or you WILL burn out your horse.

[Lou3]

Originally Posted by shepherd406

World Champion in what? I've seen a lot of horses that have qualified & placed for the world in NBHA. A horse can be prefectly calm & collected & a good horse inside the ring & out, & still run a good time. Martha Josey offered almost $20,000 for one of the horses at the ranch. A few people have offered over $23,000 for one of Bobby's mares. She has qualified for the world & she's Bobby's best roping/cow horse. Neither of those mares, like the rest of our horses, freak out at anytime outside of the ring. They may not be the best trail mount, but that's just because they don't go on the trail, but the can ride in the ring with the other horses just riding or working cows & they're fine.

I understand that most of the high dollar barrel/pole horses are used JUST for barrels & poles bc people get overly serious about it & overwork their horses. Any good trainer will tell you. You HAVE to switch it up or you WILL burn out your horse.

1998 world champion team mounted games held in Sweden
2000 world pairs championships finalist mounted games held in the UK
She died in 2001
Never managed to burn her out, she LIVED for the competition ring, loved it. Its true though that English gaming is a very different kettle of fish to western barrels and poles - there are nearly a hundred different games and every horse has to be foot perfect in every game, not to mention your position in the running order can change the requirements of the game totally in the tem and pairs events - its hard to get bored, they have to learn to follow the flag, be first off the line, put in that extra 10% when another horse is a nose in front, read the rider through all the stunts the have to perform, get used to all sorts of equipment including 6ft lances flying around all over the place, be utterly fearless when another horse approaches them head-on at a gallop for a changeover, its much more mentally demanding for a horse than learning one barrel pattern and running it over and over again. She showjumped too, very successfully.

[shepherd406]

Our local game shows have events like Barrels, Poles, Basket Weave, Keyhole, Apple Race, Fastest Horse, Speed Ball, Boot Race, Pony Express, Flag Race, Buddy Pickup, Flying T, Ring Spear, Barrel Crawl, Texas Barrels, Ribbon Race, Drunkards Paradise, Egg & Spoon.......

Each event is different & a heck of a lot of fun. If I ever got so serious that it wasn't fun anymore, I wouldn't do it.

[Lou3]

Originally Posted by shepherd406

Our local game shows have events like Barrels, Poles, Basket Weave, Keyhole, Apple Race, Fastest Horse, Speed Ball, Boot Race, Pony Express, Flag Race, Buddy Pickup, Flying T, Ring Spear, Barrel Crawl, Texas Barrels, Ribbon Race, Drunkards Paradise, Egg & Spoon.......

Each event is different & a heck of a lot of fun. If I ever got so serious that it wasn't fun anymore, I wouldn't do it.

Local events are very different to international level competition. I've swept the board at local events on badly schooled riding school horses that I've never ridden before and have never done any gaming at all before stepping into the ring.
You cant compare local gymkhana events to the top levels of competition, which in English gaming pretty much amounts to competitive speed stunt riding.

[shepherd406]

Well I'm over here. And I'd rather do local events because I never want to take myself too seriously & start using my titles as a reason to see myself as better than other people. I have my horse for fun & because I enjoy it. She's not registered & we'll never go farther than Local, maybe NBHA if she picks up barrels well. I enjoy just riding, I am perfectly happy bringing home ribbons & no money. It's fun. If it ever stops being fun, I won't do it.

[Lou3]

Originally Posted by shepherd406

Well I'm over here. And I'd rather do local events because I never want to take myself too seriously & start using my titles as a reason to see myself as better than other people. I have my horse for fun & because I enjoy it. She's not registered & we'll never go farther than Local, maybe NBHA if she picks up barrels well. I enjoy just riding, I am perfectly happy bringing home ribbons & no money. It's fun. If it ever stops being fun, I won't do it.

I've never brought home money either - english gaming doesnt work that way. I've also never competed in gaming on any horse with papers, my top mare was bought from gypsys at the side of the road for £200.
I wouldnt have done it if it wasnt fun. I miss the competing more than I can say, sadly my back and knees are no longer stable enough for me to ride in English gaming. Perhaps for my next horse I'll get a western trained horse and start barrel racing instead.