[JBandRio]

It's highly unlikely that diet is the cause of the issues.

Is it fair to jump on and immediately ask for highly collected work, or head straight out for a gallop? No - doing so is asking for cold muscles to tear.

But getting on and warming up with walking, stretching, is beneficial for both horse AND rider, and doesn't ever have to involve lunging. The benefit is that the RIDER gets to warm up as well - doesn't really happen when you're standing in the middle of a circle

There are many benefits to warming up while riding over lunging, because the rider can affect what the horse's whole body is doing - can't do that on the lunge line.

[jedy]

To paint a lovely picture on lunging to get extra energy out-
I was once an exercise rider on a big hunter horse, who was highly spirited. So I was ordered to do a good bit of fast work to let the energy out. That was fine until horse got fitter and needed even more gallop before he was contrillable. At that stage he started loosing condition, so he was fed more. His energy levels rose, o needed even more excersise. Vicious circle! Not wise at all.
So, now I wonder JB, where would you start?

[tbtrainer]

I have a fairly hot horse that I occasionally lunge... he is not allowed to go fast, instead he is worked in the slowest steadiest manner possible for him...LOL. He does end up using up some of that "extra" energy.

To the OP...not picking, but you say that this mare has issues when lunging, then claim she is fine on the ground. I vote for some lessons in ground driving, and lots of circle work at the walk under saddle for now.

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by jedy

To paint a lovely picture on lunging to get extra energy out-
I was once an exercise rider on a big hunter horse, who was highly spirited. So I was ordered to do a good bit of fast work to let the energy out. That was fine until horse got fitter and needed even more gallop before he was contrillable. At that stage he started loosing condition, so he was fed more. His energy levels rose, o needed even more excersise. Vicious circle! Not wise at all.

Exactly

Over-conditioning can cause muscle loss and even weight loss, just as being under-conditioned and under-fed. Over-conditioning also stresses the immune system, and makes it much easier to become sick.

So, now I wonder JB, where would you start?

With slow things. Horses who are always go go go go, who can't just settle, are usually just reacting. They aren't taking a deep breath (literally and figuratively) and *thinking* about things. They are taking a passive role in their environment and just reacting, instead of taking an active role.

Every time you cause or allow the horse to run around, the horse gets to practice that behavior yet again, making it harder to un-instill. So, those behaviors have to be shut down, immediately, and you start over asking for slow again.

[jedy]

Thank. More specific tho? How exactly would you make the horse stop and think?
My guess is there'd be no saddle and full go back to lead rope to start with?


We broke a filly (3yo) last year, who was only go go go. Any stimulus. (You do realize by now we often do things bit differently here) we got as far as being able to sit on her on the lunging rope with light leg and light contact, walk and trot, but i had to be very careful to keep my weight stead, any shift and she was inclined to either bolt or freeze. So we left her alone and let out to mature.
We were very lucky, this year we started with changing grain that the owner gave her to a balancer, and with some steady work she emerged a different horse. Still very forward, but she threw her life into my hands and was lovely.
But if the horse was being ridden like the OPs one for a while, I don't know what would I do.

[angie j]

Originally Posted by jedy

How exactly would you make the horse stop and think?

It's the 'think' that is the relevent issue. With 'this' particular horse it also needs to 'slow', but slow horses can have the same issue. Ever been on a trail ride with one of those mindless, 'follow the *** of the horse in front of me' kind of horses? I don't care how good a rider you are... they have been mentaly 'reacting' to the animal in front for so long they aren't capable of 'listening' anymore; They are 'shut down'.

"Exactly how", you ask? Each horse is different. Find the point in the horses training/ handling where it stops looking to 'you' for instruction and start there.

[JBandRio]

Yeah, the "how" is going to be different based on what the horse is doing or getting ready to do.

For some, if they have reacted in a flightly way, sometimes it literally takes a big ol' heave-ho of the lead rope so the snap smacks their chin to give them a literal "slap in the face". Break them out of their mental pattern. I'm not saying beat the horse, but depending on the circumstance you just have to get them stopped.

same thing under saddle - if the horse is just ignoring you, just tanking along, that's not the time to use a more firm aid, then more firm, then more. That's a time to just sit the horse DOWN and just stand there. Break the cycle. Every attempt at just running off needs to be shut down, and quickly, so they will start to realize that's a wrong answer.

It can be a very fine line between doing something like that with the result being a horse who takes a deep breath, licks, thinks aboout things, etc, and the horse who just gets frazzled by it.

That's why it really depends on the horse and the specific circumstance.

Sometimes the answer is to put the horse on a path to nowhere - a circle- and wait for them to make a positive change. Then you reward the bejeezus out of him and you're done for the day. Then you do the same thing the next day, and the next day, and every day until it's normal for the horse to behave properly in that situation. That may mean that's the only thing you do for 2 weeks in a row, day after day, you try to get a relaxed walk. But that's what it takes to get behavioral changes. You don't go on to trotting until the horse walks off quietly, or can easily and quickly be told "slow, not fast" and he's ok with it.

[jedy]

Ok, I get it.