[soloation]

I am moving to a smaller property where I will have my horses living on small dry lots. I will have plenty of hay, but I am wondering if anyone has suggestions on alternative forages. I was reading an equine nutrition book and they suggested oat hulls, soybean hulls, and chaff (chopped straw or crappy hay). I'm not really looking for something with any nutritional value like beet pulp or alfalfa cubes/pellets.... I know that sounds silly, but I just am trying to plan ways to keep my horses occupied on dry lots once they finish their hay and other feed rations. I'm also planning on installing different 'horsie toys' in each dry lot - rattly hanging milk jugs, mounted broom heads for scratching, jolly balls... any other ideas?

Thanks for any help...

[Sue B]

While I understand y0our concepts.....I don't necessarily agree with them. I also have several horses on dry lots. From years of experience dealing with a "no grass" situation here are some things I learned.....

Feeding "filler" alterative forages are sometimes not only non-beneficial, but can be potentially harmful. Easily digestable forages/alternatives make a horse feel "full" and thus not wanting to eat all their hay in a hurry. The best thing is to provide enough hay so that they have free access to it all the time....or as close to that as possible.

Feeding high lignin forages (poor quality) means that the fibers sit in the digestive tract longer and never actually get digested. This can lead to a slow moving digestive system....risk for colic. It can also lead to a lactic acid build up...risk for colic, stiff muscles, and digestive disorders that could lead to laminitis. Additionally, lower quality forages can actually lead to weight loss...even if the rest of the rations are sufficient...my guess on this is that it takes calories to digest food....in humans things like nuts and seeds are generally "negative" calorie foods (it takes more calories to digest them than they provide). If a poor quality forage is provided...the question becomes....does it provide "negative" calories for the horse?

Feeding higher quality alternatives/forages will allow you to provide less and make the horse want to eat less hay and/or generally eat their hay slower. Providing lower quality alternatives can become a losing proposition.

[soloation]

Thanks for the input, Sue. In the book I was reading, it did mention grain hulls and chaff as high lignin forages. However, it said that the low digestiblility can be a good thing, as it can slow down the digestive system and help keep things moving at a regular pace. I didn't think about the possibility of it slowing things down *too* much...

This book also mentioned to not feed hay an hour before graining or two hours after graining, so the grain ration can be fully absorbed in the digestive tract - resulting in a more efficient feed program. I've always been taught the opposite, to feed hay 15 minutes before grain to prevent colic.... which do you prefer?

I didn't know if I was quite clear - I was planning on feeding full rations of good hay and grain - the low quality forage would truly be just a "busy food." I don't know if that changes your answers. Sometimes I'm so vague!

I am most interested in this for my very overweight gelding, who seems to subsist on air. He has been tested for IR but I am waiting on the results, which may change my management plans anyway.

Have you had problems with boredom with your horses who lived in dry lots? My gelding is actually pretty good about it, but my two year old becomes a BEAVER. I am hoping that 'horsie toys' will help keep him occupied, but he is like a little kid, ten minutes with a toy and he breaks it or decides he doesn't like it anymore...

[Dawn]

Some great info has been given.

If you're feeding full portions of hay, then you shouldn't have any if much 'down time' to worry about. Now that of course depends on the individual horse (how fast they eat and how much hay they can actually have), the type/quality of hay you're feeding (finer, more leafy hay will be eaten more quickly than stemmier hay), as well as how often you are willing to give them hay. For instance, if you can give hay 3-4 times a day, you will have less down time than if you can only feed 1 time a day.

The equine system is designed to work at the 'correct' pace. You do not want to be slowing it down or speeding it up unless there is a preexisting problem.

High lignin diets are also the cause of 'hay belly'.

If grains are fed in the correct amounts, then there shouldn't be any problems with feeding hay before or after. Now if you're feeding too much grains and you push hay in after it, it might make it move through the stomach slightly sooner, but not by much (probably not enough of a difference to matter as food will only sit in the stomach for a predetermined amount of time). So the solution to this is to feed appropriate levels of grain in a meal so that none is pushed into the hindgut undigested.

You'll also find that many of the 'low quality' forages are very high in bad sugars. Exactly what you do not want your IR gelding to have. In his case, you likely need to concentrate on finding how to provide the most nutrition, with the lowest sugars, in the most condensed package (to minimize caloric intake).

[soloation]

Thank you Dawn! The fat horse inhales his hay, I swear. I am hoping to be feeding 3 x a day but I don't have a new job yet so we'll see how it goes.

How do you feel about feeding fescue hay to mature geldings? A conversation with a hay dealer enlightened me on that - I knew fescue was bad for broodmares, but I thought it wasn't great for other horses either. I did a little research and from what I can find, it's ok for mature geldings and mares you don't plan to breed. What do you think? The hay dealer suggested that as it's affordable and easy to find.

I did not know high lignin diets contributed to hay bellies - thanks for that fact! ; )

I was wondering about the high sugar! I was discussing that with my horse friend today, I remember a story about a gelding who foundered horribly and sloughed his hooves. They were feeding him low sugar hay and couldn't figure out why he wouldn't improve, turns out he was eating the straw he was bedded on - I was thinking it was the high sugar problem but I hadn't gone back and checked yet. I am quite interested to get his IR test results. He has never had anny soundness issues but is a laughably easy keeper.

Thank you again for the help!

[imacowgirl2]

Originally Posted by soloation

Thank you Dawn! The fat horse inhales his hay, I swear. I am hoping to be feeding 3 x a day but I don't have a new job yet so we'll see how it goes.

How do you feel about feeding fescue hay to mature geldings? A conversation with a hay dealer enlightened me on that - I knew fescue was bad for broodmares, but I thought it wasn't great for other horses either. I did a little research and from what I can find, it's ok for mature geldings and mares you don't plan to breed. What do you think? The hay dealer suggested that as it's affordable and easy to find.

We feed fescue to all of our horses in years that we don't have a pregnant broodmare...no problems thus far.

[Dawn]

Fescue is, in general, a very nice hay with a relatively high protein level. Of course, hay is only as good as the soil it's grown in and also how it was cut and cured. So as long as you're not planning on breeding, it's an excellent choice.

Having laminitic/foundered horses bedded on straw is a very common problem. They use the straw to try to alleviate pressure sores, and then the horse eats it causing even worse problems than pressure sores.

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by soloation

The fat horse inhales his hay, I swear. I am hoping to be feeding 3 x a day but I don't have a new job yet so we'll see how it goes.

Spread the hay out very thinly over his entire paddock.

How do you feel about feeding fescue hay to mature geldings? A conversation with a hay dealer enlightened me on that - I knew fescue was bad for broodmares, but I thought it wasn't great for other horses either. I did a little research and from what I can find, it's ok for mature geldings and mares you don't plan to breed. What do you think? The hay dealer suggested that as it's affordable and easy to find.

Unless you have a very high-performance horse, fescue is fine.

I was wondering about the high sugar! I was discussing that with my horse friend today, I remember a story about a gelding who foundered horribly and sloughed his hooves. They were feeding him low sugar hay and couldn't figure out why he wouldn't improve, turns out he was eating the straw he was bedded on - I was thinking it was the high sugar problem but I hadn't gone back and checked yet. I am quite interested to get his IR test results. He has never had anny soundness issues but is a laughably easy keeper.

Testing him would be worthwhile. Or, you can just start feeding him as if he is - soaking his hay, feeding all low-NSC feeds, NO CARROTS or apples, no grains of any kind, no molasses.

Originally Posted by soloation

This book also mentioned to not feed hay an hour before graining or two hours after graining, so the grain ration can be fully absorbed in the digestive tract - resulting in a more efficient feed program. I've always been taught the opposite, to feed hay 15 minutes before grain to prevent colic.... which do you prefer?

Food isn't digested like that. It stays in the stomach for a set period of time, then moves to the hindgut where it's further broken down. How you feed hay in relation to grain is usually more a factor of how the horse eats. Those who are without food for several hours before "feeding" are more likely to bolt their grain if given that first thing, so feeding hay first and 30 minutes or so later, after they've satisfied some of their chewing needs, feed grain. Otherwise, it's perfectly find to feed grain first.

the low quality forage would truly be just a "busy food." I don't know if that changes your answers.

Low quality shouldn't mean low digestibility (ie high lignin). It can however mean last year's hay.

Have you had problems with boredom with your horses who lived in dry lots? My gelding is actually pretty good about it, but my two year old becomes a BEAVER. I am hoping that 'horsie toys' will help keep him occupied, but he is like a little kid, ten minutes with a toy and he breaks it or decides he doesn't like it anymore...

Boredom usually comes from not enough to chew. Chewing wood for a 2yo is likely also resulting from teething. Can you put some dead pine logs in there for them to chew on?

[soloation]

Originally Posted by JBandRio

Low quality shouldn't mean low digestibility (ie high lignin). It can however mean last year's hay.

So chaff/oat hulls would be ok as "filler"? I'm confused.

This same book also mentioned ground corn cobs as a "filler" feed - I thought horses weren't supposed to/couldn't digest these?

Can you put some dead pine logs in there for them to chew on?

Good idea, I will definitely try that!!

[ejforrest]

"Hay Alternatives for Horses"
www.thehorse.com/PrintArticle.aspx?ID=8898

Complete feeds-"these are ground hay, usually alfalfa. They increase the fiber content. They do not provide the bulk necessary to keep the digestive tract functioning smoothly."

Silage and haylage "can be feed-they provide bulk and fiber."

Horsehage-vacuumed packed high moisture hay-"High in digestible energy and a good source of fiber and bulk".

Shredded sugar beet pulp "High in digestible energy and a good source of fiber and bulk. Can be feed dry or wet and is safe to feed as much as you want since it is an easy to digest fiber".

Citrus pulp-"Feeding values varies with the processing conditions, but it can provide bult to the diet. Can be fed 25% of the horses diet."

Grain hulls, "such as cottonseed hulls, peanut hulls, oat hulls and rice mill feed, can increase bulk in the horses diet. Generally, these feed by-products are not extremely palatable to horses and are low in nutritive value. Hulls should be limited to10% of the total ration."

Soybean hulls-"Are slightly lower than oats in nutritional value. There small size many not provide the bulk needed by the horses digestive tract. Most horses will eat them with a sweet feed and soybean hulls should be limited to 50% of the diet. Remember, mixing them in a sweet feed destroys the nutritional balance of the sweet feed."

Ground corn cobs-"Low in nutritive value but provide a good source of bulk in the horse diet when fed coarsely ground."

Straw-" From cereal grains are lower in nutritive value than hay, but they can be used in horse diets to provide bulk. Straw should be limited to 10% of the total ration."