[JKetsche]

Pony, what makes you think he's not Christian? How do you seem to know something the rest of us don't?

[PonyGirl93]

Originally Posted by JKetsche

Pony, what makes you think he's not Christian? How do you seem to know something the rest of us don't?

It's not for me to say whether he is or isn't a Christian. That's totally between him and God. I hadn't even watched the vid yet when I posted. The video proves nothing. People can make it look like a politician said anything on a video through cutting at just the right place, etc.

But Obama's lack of generosity (even to his own family), his apparent lack of Christian values in many situations, his choice of church, and his sometimes horribly unthoughtful humor is certainly enough to cast a shadow of doubt on his Christianity. For me, anyway. But I'm not the one to judge. I'm not saying he ISN'T a Christian. I'm saying there's a good chance he isn't.

[JKetsche]

Christian is a forgiven sinner, not a saint. It doesn't make him a liar or someone who's defrauded the country. You said he was "blatantly lying" about not being a Muslim, but I don't get it. He's not a Muslim. You also said, "[h]ow is it NOT misleading people when he tells us that he's a Christian?? How you can see him as "upfront" in that way is beyond me." This means you ARE judging whether or not he's a Christian. You're also doing it based on a very few factors.

I find it interesting that people (not just on this thread) equate their own morals with the definition of Christianity. There is no allowance for differences in the way people prioritize and the way in which people stumble in a Christian walk. Just an observation . . .

[Kicks]

Rather or not BHO is a Christian or a Muslim or any other organized religion, he is the only who might know the truth of his thoughts. It is clear, though, that he is definately a confirmed/devout 'Obama-ist'.

[PonyGirl93]

Edit my earlier post: I replaced an "if" with a "that". It was supposed to say:

"I don't care if he's a muslim! I care if he's blatantly lying about it."

It is a rather big difference

A Christian is a forgiven sinner who is trying with everything they've got to please God and be His servant. I don't see that in Obama (or any current politician, for that matter), but I, obviously, as I've said several times, can't say whether he is or isn't.

I'm not equating my morals with Christianity: I'm equating the Bible's morals with Christianity. That is, after all, what Christianity is all about.

[crayon]

I hope I don't offend anybody by saying this... But Obama isn't a lot of things that he claims to be. Nobody's even ever seen his birth certificate...

[AdamW]

Originally Posted by crayon

I hope I don't offend anybody by saying this... But Obama isn't a lot of things that he claims to be. Nobody's even ever seen his birth certificate...

LOL, I still can't believe that people go for the whole 'he's not American' thing.

[JKetsche]

Originally Posted by PonyGirl93

Edit my earlier post: I replaced an "if" with a "that". It was supposed to say:

"I don't care if he's a muslim! I care if he's blatantly lying about it."

It is a rather big difference

You're right; it is. Much better!

A Christian is a forgiven sinner who is trying with everything they've got to please God and be His servant. [no--a Christian wants to obey God out of gratitude, out of a change in one's heart because of the Holy Spirit, out of obedience, and because God's law is designed to HELP us, but it isn't a requirement] I don't see that in Obama (or any current politician, for that matter), but I, obviously, as I've said several times, can't say whether he is or isn't.

You are looking at a very specific set of things. Maybe his real struggle is with his temper, and he is learning to control that. Maybe his real struggle is with lust. There are MYRIAD things that he could be working on in his heart that even his closest friends and family never see--and we who only know him from TV or what not are CERTAINLY not qualified to say he is or isn't trying to please God.

I'm not equating my morals with Christianity: I'm equating the Bible's morals with Christianity. That is, after all, what Christianity is all about.

You fault: "Obama's lack of generosity (even to his own family)" --yet you don't cite specific examples of what he did wrong or analyze potential examples in context, nor do you accept that it may be a fault which he has not yet overcome-- "his apparent lack of Christian values in many situations," --rather vague, don't you think? and couldn't someone cite anyone's "lack of Christian values" in certain situations? I remember being at our church worship team's New Years party and seeing members get drunk--does that mean they aren't Christians? "his choice of church," because the Bible's morals dictate which church one joins? and "his sometimes horribly unthoughtful humor" --you never heard a Christian tell a bad joke?-- is certainly enough to cast a shadow of doubt on his Christianity. For me, anyway. But I'm not the one to judge. I'm not saying he ISN'T a Christian. I'm saying there's a good chance he isn't.

Didn't you ever hear about removing the plank from one's own eye? I'm willing to bet that someone could take snippets from your life or anyone else's and make the case against that person's faith. Honestly, did you ever question Bush's Christianity? If Obama claims to be a Christian it should be enough. It may not be your brand of Christianity, but until you are privy to the interactions between Obama and God, all you can do is take his word for it--just as you can take your pastor's word for it or your friends' word for it . . .

If he believes he is a Christian, even if you don't buy it, he isn't lying to the American people. Isn't that what you're up in arms about in the first place?

[JKetsche]

Originally Posted by crayon

I hope I don't offend anybody by saying this... But Obama isn't a lot of things that he claims to be. Nobody's even ever seen his birth certificate...

Birthers are such fun. Obama can tell the truth, people can choose not to believe him, and then they can accuse him of fraud. What a wonderful thing it is to have illogical opponents with an axe to grind and no leg on which to stand. It makes things highly entertaining for the rest of us.

Seriously, Obama HAS provided his birth certificate. If you choose not to believe it, that's YOUR issue. If he provides what you WANT to see, he's a liar. If he provides the truth, you don't believe it and accuse him of lying. He can't win. What exactly do you want from him in this regard?

If you choose not to believe the state of Hawai'i, then I guess I can't help you.

[bubba8167]

Originally Posted by JKetsche

Christian is a forgiven sinner,

Actually, a christian is one who follows the teachings of Christ. The term 'christian' literally means 'little christ'.