[SweetSavannah]

now for the first 2yrs of owning Savannah i was doing dressage with her. now we have discovered Savannah's true passion lies in showjumping.

we were building up to training flying changes in dressage and were doing lots of counter canter and lateral work to balance her for it, but never actually started training it.

now that we're doing showjumping i'm beginning to see differences between flying changes for dressage and flying changes for jumping.

the dressage FC is more of an upward 'skip' which looks very expressive. a lot of weight is taken on the hindquarters and the front legs have a definite moment where you can see the change of leg.

the showjumping FC seems to be so subtle that if you blink you miss it. it seems to flow seamlessly from one canter stride to the next without interrupting the horse's momentum.

can someone explain to me the differences in training for a showjumping flying change and a dressage flying change? is the sequence the same? what is the sequence for each leg?

[JKetsche]

I have a video of showjumper Franke Sloothaak working his jumping horses on the flat, and his look more like dressage changes--he even does 3 tempi changes. I have always wondered why there is a difference between H/J changes and dressage changes as well as why Franke's look more like dressage ones when he is a SJ rider. I'm curious to see what people say.

[griffin]

As far as i know - and please crucify my if i am wrong, in dressage it is all about timing the leg aids with the horses movement and having the correct bend and flexion for the change and asking for it at the exact moment of suspension and the horse responds immediatley giving it that exagerated look. However................

In SJ i believe it is based on the weight aids and the change doesnt need to happen at an exact time. eg if a horse lands on the right canter lead and needs to turn left to the next jump, the rider will use weight aids around the corner for the change of leg but it is alot more natural for the horse as he has will change naturally to balance himself hence the reason that you can miss it in a blink...........

I really havent explained this very well have i

[John]

Originally Posted by JKetsche

I have a video of showjumper Franke Sloothaak working his jumping horses on the flat, and his look more like dressage changes--he even does 3 tempi changes. I have always wondered why there is a difference between H/J changes and dressage changes as well as why Franke's look more like dressage ones when he is a SJ rider. I'm curious to see what people say.

Dont forget the lead changes used by western horses in reining or cutting or the ones used by a horse loose in the pasture without any tack on. Could it be that all lead changes are the same?

[irishchick]

yeah griffin your about right there...well at least thats how we train it
we ride a figure of 8 with a ground pole in the middle just as we go over the pole i shift my weight in the direction i want to go in and drop my inside leg back a little...
for ages i just couldnt get it and i happened to be up in cian o conners yard (irish showjumper) looking at a horse and he showed me how he does it

i thinkt he showjumping change is more for practical reason rather than to show off hence its not as expressive as the dressage flying change sometimes

[SuZQuzie]

When I'm focusing on my flat, in particular, lead changes, I practice timing, quality, and frequency. Ed and I will do lead changes while off the rail to the next counter canter, on the rail multiple times, and a very specified moment down the diagonal (no early birds or unresponsiveness). This is exhibiting his flying lead changes with a real rock back onto the hunch and lifting in front. Here, the lead change is the challenge.

Over fences, however, the horse is in a different kind of collection that doesn't require for the lead change to be an event in itself. Rather, it is simply done to be able to continue the course with a correctly balanced horse to the next fence.

At least in my experience, it is the same training to get the same movement without as much emphasis.

[kellidahorsegirl]

Lead changes happen from the same techniques,,,,,its just that when jumping (hunters or jumpers) you have a set pace basically. So think about this: if you were cantering around and needed a lead change and you set your horse back and prepared, then received the exagerated lead change, you would have changed your pace. You then have to get it back.
So, this is why, when jumping, we do a lead change as part of another stride. It is meant to happen in the blink of an eye so the horse does not change pace.

[Kissitgoodbye]

Dressage changes tend to be a little more up hill too, and balanced. The key to the flying changes in Dressage is that the horse should be straight, and that hind leg should take a big step.

I am not a jumper, but I see the changes with them a little more flat, and rushy (thats not a good word)...

But there is even a different in reining too!

[kellidahorsegirl]

Yeah, in jumping, the change is just that....a change. Done, over with. In dressage, the change shows the skill of the horse, the collection, the uhhh etc. HAHA Dressage does changes to present something,,,,jumpers do a change and keep going.

[SuZQuzie]

Originally Posted by Kissitgoodbye

Dressage changes tend to be a little more up hill too, and balanced. The key to the flying changes in Dressage is that the horse should be straight, and that hind leg should take a big step.

I am not a jumper, but I see the changes with them a little more flat, and rushy (thats not a good word)...

But there is even a different in reining too!

Those are the bad changes.