[Mutrok]

Originally Posted by RiddleMeThis

That looks like counter shading to me on baby

And it totally could be...that is what I thought. But adding the fact that she has had 3 foals all to non duns with dun charistics, 2 that have not fadded from having it and the strange coloring on both of her older foals...could be nothing...could be something. She also has a dorsal...could be counter shading...absolutely. Maybe I will pull hairs from the yearling and see what he tests as base color and agouti...could be interesting. Won't tell me much but I have a feeling his phenotype has not much to do with his genotype

[RiddleMeThis]

Well IMO countershading is caused by sooty, or something very very like sooty, and if that is the case then it is most likely genetic.


Or it could be something like this theory
http://www.duncentralstation.com/PrimitiveTheory.html

Basically

1) On bay-based duns, the primitive markings are different colors in different parts of the horse, corresponding to the points of the original bay coat. From this, she concludes that dun does not darken the primitive markings, only dilutes the area around them.

2) In dun half-siblings (each from the same dun sire crossed with different non-dun mares), expression of dun can vary widely. From this, she concludes that the extent of the primitive marking is not controlled by the same factor as the dun dilution (if it were the same factor, dun offspring of the same dun parent should have identical expressions of dun).

3) Primitive markings can occur on non-dun horses. She sees this as evidence that they are always present, are controlled by a factor other than dun, and can be revealed by other mechanisms.

Completely disagree with two, but some of the rest of it sounds plausible.

[Mutrok]

RMT...thanks for that It does sound plausible. Things would be so much easier if they just knew of every possibility and had a test for it, lol!

[Simply Savvy]

Originally Posted by RiddleMeThis

Here is a great one of a LP and dun playing lovely lovely tricks on coat color

She's black?

Are they absolutely sure? What modifiers does she have?

[[Sorry to go a little off-topic, but wow, I would have guessed several things, but black was not one of them ]]

[RiddleMeThis]

Yep dna tested black, and she has LP Patn and dun.

[Top Dun]

Yep she's a Grulla appaloosa.

Love her. If I had the money she'd be in my pasture for sure.

Originally Posted by Simply Savvy

She's black?

Are they absolutely sure? What modifiers does she have?

[Simply Savvy]

Did they test her for cream or anything else? I would have guessed she had cream or maybe silver at least. That is very wild. I did not know that the Leopard Pattern could change colors that drastically.

She looks more like a dark palomino than a black to me. She's absolutely beautiful though; she's a lovely mare no matter what color she is.

[RiddleMeThis]

Heres her page. Dam looks chestnut, but has lots of white so who knows, and it doesnt say thing about testing dam. Looking for daddy now http://www.designsporthorse.com/Ava%20More%20Photos.htm

[RiddleMeThis]

Says on Allbreed daddy is buckskin, but looks normal bay. Daddys sire is black and mom looks bay, and is actually a bay dun. So highly doubtful that there is cream there.

[Simply Savvy]

It says her sire is a out of a "dun factor buckskin with a blanket and large spots", but nowhere does it say if he was every tested for Cream or Dun.

And nowhere on the site do I see anything saying where the horses were tested or pictures of the actual test. It makes me very curious it maybe she could have Cream or Silver and they just do not know it.

They say she "may have other modifiers".