[HorseCraze120]

The 4 year old Thoroughbred I ride is consistently fighting the bit. He's perfectly fine at the walk, but as SOON as we start trotting he throw's his head up. He JUST had his teeth done, no back problems of any sort! He is still green, but when he actually wants to behave, he'll go right down and you can bend him very easily. I don't know WHAT to do. I've tried a standing martingale, no martingale, I ALWAYS do lots of circles/transitions with him. I don't have a harsh hand, I've tried pushing him forward into the bit, but he'll just fight even more when I try to work his head down.

He WAS trained for the track, but never raced. He does have some OTTB behavior such as (just wanting to go go go, goes better one direction).

With him, he needs to be a forward horse. Not crazy forward, but impulsion. I really could use some suggestions on this. I'm just getting so frustrated with myself because I feel like I'm not doing something right!


Here he is fighting the bit! Ugh. After the ride I tell him to put his head down because he looks ugly fighting the bit haha







Here is a picture from our ride the other day, this is him throwing his head up, but not even fighting the bit.

[IMG]file:///C:/Users/Ashley/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-5.jpg[/IMG]


And here he is on some of his good points.

[doublebarr]

*disclaimer* I am not an "english" person, but train a lot of colts.

With one that is just starting out, if they start throwing their head I throw away the reins and just push them forward. Forget about "on the bit" and just ask them to start using their butt and driving forward and the head will come down. I try to stay off the mouth as much as possible and do not mind if they are "too fast" right now as they need to learn to carry themselves, as long as they are not strining out behind. Once they can travel ballanced, under themselves and with the head at a NATURAL level, then I will start asking for their face and putting the head where I want it.

I will not go to a martingale (running) untill they travel rounded and just want to try and suck their face out.

If you look at this picture:


he is hollow backed and strung out behind. The contact is just causing him to drop his back even farther and push his back end out. Forget face for a while and just work on pushing him forward and lifting the ribs. Throw speed control out the window and ask for ballance. If you have trails with hills, that is where you guys need to work for a while. Lot's of downhill work.

[HorseCraze120]

Thank you for all the help! Unfortunately, he is not ready for the trails right now. He had a big problem with taking off, and just recently getting back into stuff.

So are you saying I should have more or less contact?

[Outrider]

Doublebarr is correct that you need to get the horse working from the rear to the fore but I have not always found the best success by simply driving the horse forward.

There are two schools that are at opposite ends of the spectrum and interesting when the horse reaches a certain level of training both horses will appear to be identical but just started differently.

My preference is to have the horse relaxed and listening to me before I start any strong driving forward. My thinking is that driving the horse into a tense resistant jaw will not work for every horse and sometime you have to look into the toolbox for something else.

Think of your horse as a piece of dried up leather that must be massaged and manipulated to that it becomes softer and like a pliant leather piece that can be bent without breaking. Slowly work him back and forth with bends and turns until he starts to relax and drop his head and accept your contact. From there you will go from walk to a very slow trot to get the horse moving in rhythm but in a soft supple way. Doing this slow and careful will focus your horse and he should relax its jaw,body and accept your controls and seat aids. Speed should not be a factor and impulsion will develop under it own as the horse relaxes. If the head goes up go back a step and re establish contact and again trot slowly in bends and turns,even leg yields are good. This gives you, the rider time to assess each response and act upon it by changing, giving or applying more leg/seat as needed. This will require patience but the time invested can be well worth it in having a trusting horse.

If the horse has accepted contact and relaxed its jaw to accept your aids and requests, then you have a horse that has in effect given its body to you in trust.

This is called relaxation working towards suppleness and is something you will need for further work..

[tbtrainer]

Have you tried a different bit? If that is a regular full cheeck, you may want to try him in a french link, or a happy mouth. I cant tell from the pics but are you using keepers on that bit?

[k212703899]

A lot of Tb s has lower mouth palet and they like the french link or the double break bit.Also if he has back problems and he is sore that can make throw his head.Have you had his back checked?

[Coaco]

well i can tell just form your pictures that He dose in fact have some pain issues. if you look at the break over point of his hinds his toes are way too long same with his fronts. he just is not really sore as of yet.

You need to pull your feet out of the sturrups alot, you only want the balls of the feet on the strurrup. when you do that there will be a better line from your Hips to your heels. Your base of support is off (you dont actualy have one in the pictures) because your feet are so far in front of you a "rocking chair" position. and really need to bend your elbose so that they are at your side ( yes the change in contact will make a difference).

It looks like you might be inadvertently pulling on his face.and the more he hollows out the ruffer he gets the more he will toss his head, the more he moves you the more you "pull".

These things are really hard for us riders to see unless we are vidioed or really look at the pictures. thats why we have lessons.

[Taxi Jumper]

What kind of bits have you tried on him?

Taxi HATED full cheeks, he would fight them all the time. The horse I was riding for someone else, Shaq, had to have a ported bit to relieve tongue pressure otherwise he fought a lot. Also, Taxi had a big problem with having a flash, the pressure just made him want to fight the bit more.

[bloodymerrie]

Agree with doublebarr. My mare used to do this. Don't give him something to pull against, don't let him lean on your hands. Lots of loose rein and lots of softening the rein (massage the mouth, DON'T SAW) when riding with contact. It will also help him if you get your leg under yourself (ear, shoulder, hip, ankle in line) and don't tip your upper body forward. You are putting your weight on his forehand. Sit back!

[swansonspaints]

I am a big believer in lateral flexions prior to vertical flexions.
http://www.lessismorehorse.com/Later...%20Article.htm
He simply has not been taught to seek relief from the bit by flexing laterally or vertically. I've softened up both my horses this way and it really works! My mare is a head tosser when running loose, but she is like butter to ride and no head tossing when ridden. She probably is 3/4 TB (she is a paint.) Lateral flexions will also help you when he tries to take off on you. When I laterally flex my horses it is like a parking brake for them. I am always very gentle. You could seriously hurt a horse by not doing this right. But when I am out on the trail and they get spooky, I do a lateral flexions and all four feet stop moving and it actually calms them down. This is important here in Norco, because I have to deal with fencing, curbs, cars, motorcycles, trash trucks, dogs, lawnmowers, people, children...you name it. I can't have a horse jumping all around in those conditions when they get upset or anxious about things (and since they are "hot" horses they have a tendency to do that.) I had a TB off the tracks about 31 years ago and they can have a lot of undesirable issues! Take it slow and enjoy him! I hope I have helped.