[TuffysTreatMan]

My horse Tuffy is capable of turning on a dime. At speed he plants the front outside leg, changes lead, and he is snaps off in another direction.

When he was younger he'd do this without me asking, so got in trouble, and I'm afraid I shut him down. Now I want to encourage the behavior on cue.

We are making progress and I'm getting some snappy turns, but we are not consistent yet everytime I cue. My cue is a little neck rein and a shift in the saddle. The saddle shift positions my balance for the sudden surge of the turn, loading the outside stirrup while pressing upper leg into Tuffy's side. We started doing it naturally, and now I'm building on our success, keeping it fun, and encouraging him when we do it right, don't make a big deal when we get it wrong. Right now I'd say we get 2 out of 10, usually get in a groove and do several right. I try to quit on a good one.

Anyone got some tips?

[doublebarr]

You're working on the wrong end of the horse. You MUST "set" the inside rear leg and turn back over that leg. Before ever doing this at speed, you need to establish being able to move both the shoulder and the hip independently. Then incorporate forward motion at the stop into a planted inside rear and the shoulder coming around the hip while keeping the spine straight and the front's crossing over. Without a bit of crossover on the front, even a rollback cannot be done correctly as the horse has to reach across with the outside front while the inside rear stays in track. This requires a LOT of strength in the hip to power the body through the reverse of direction. What you are currently doing is putting the horse on the forehand and hindering his ability to bring his body around. Work on making sure he's lighter in the front, energy moving forward and setting his hip under himself on the inside. Think of it as a "dropped" inside hip and a lifted inside shoulder.

[TuffysTreatMan]

Originally Posted by doublebarr

You're working on the wrong end of the horse. You MUST "set" the inside rear leg and turn back over that leg. Before ever doing this at speed, you need to establish being able to move both the shoulder and the hip independently. Then incorporate forward motion at the stop into a planted inside rear and the shoulder coming around the hip while keeping the spine straight and the front's crossing over. Without a bit of crossover on the front, even a rollback cannot be done correctly as the horse has to reach across with the outside front while the inside rear stays in track. This requires a LOT of strength in the hip to power the body through the reverse of direction. What you are currently doing is putting the horse on the forehand and hindering his ability to bring his body around. Work on making sure he's lighter in the front, energy moving forward and setting his hip under himself on the inside. Think of it as a "dropped" inside hip and a lifted inside shoulder.

Thanks for the advice, I think I know what you mean. It may be Tuffy is doing what you say already and I just didn't describe it well. This turn he does naturally is athletic and sharp and works well, and I'd like to encourage it. I'll video him and see if he is all front end or if he's got the back end going too.

[doublebarr]

Video would be good not only for us to see, but for you to understand the mechanics of what your horse is actually doing also. There are horses that can perform quite athletically doing everything wrong, but the stresses of those manuvers are increased because less than optimum joints/bones are taking the stress. The fact that you say he is having more trouble than success with it means that you both would probably benefit with being able to see just exactally what he is doing. Video is really good for that.

[endurgirl]

Some horses that are naturally heavier on the forehand can make you think they did it right by planting the foreleg (as you say) and flinging the hindquarters around. To someone not as familiar to a horse rolling back properly, it may feel the same, as the quick change of direction and the rider not focusing on which leg planted and which end moved, LOL!

A video would be an awesome help, as we can watch it and see if it is being done properly.