Ever heard of these symptons before?? Check out video!

Chester · 03-04-2007, 04:01 PM

Yes, I though of that, but it would not explain the swelling or mark.

I think I would be looking at a bite of some sort, spider, snake?

I wouldnt have a clue as to what sort though living on the other side of the pond.

Shay's Sunshine · 03-04-2007, 07:31 PM

Thanks for the suggestions - has anyone had experinence with Lymphangitis? Basically an infected wound, that spreads infection up the lymphatic vessels of the leg. I found this in a vet book. I only guess that because the vet gave him penicillin and strong antibotics. I am anxious to talk to vets again in morning. Unfortuanetly, I caught one vet Friday 5:00 closing time and talked to a different weekend vet Saturday. And that is what he had done along witht he x-ray that showed nothing.

I will post his report tomorrow for your interest - I hope he has some answers!

Morri · 03-05-2007, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shay's Sunshine

O.K. Here is the jest of it. Shay limping, brought him in,

Was he turned out or were you riding him before he started limping??

Could he have had a siezure before you brought him in? If so, could he have injured the leg during a siezure? The thrashing can be quite violent. I would think if it was a toxin (spider or snake) the symptoms would either have gotten worse (in the case or a neurotoxin), or if a mild reaction, better.

Shay's Sunshine · 03-05-2007, 07:01 AM

I had gone on trails with him one day, couldn't come out the next day to see him but barn owner said he came in fine to eat around 1 pm (they are out 24/7), I came out the next day and when I went out to get him, he was lame and then you know the rest.

It could be possible some kind of poision bite since I was on trails. It did get worse and did seem to go UP his leg.

Can't wait to hear from vet's today - I would assume if it was a bite that the penisillen(sp?) and anitbotics might have taken care of it?

Morri · 03-05-2007, 07:05 AM

OK Mucking is done and I've had a cuppa so the brain can answer LOL One would hope that MOST vets would be able to diagnose the puncture wounds of a snake bite. Also, MOST vets should be able to make a smear and do a quick, if not complete blood differential. One would expect to see an increase in eosinophiles if this was an allergic reaction to a spider bite. Also MOST vets, sadly to say, will automatically give a shot of pennicillin (antibiotic) as a preventative to secondary infection and to make the owner think that they have done SOMETHING (also makes them more $$).

Too many years as a tech I guess.

You mentiion that this has gone on for a week now with an increase in severity not a decrease. If the bite was toxic, one would expect the horse to have passed by a week without treatment. If it was a neurotoxin, it could be causeing siezures, but again after a week????

My gut says to look deeper.

Morri · 03-05-2007, 07:08 AM

[quote=Shay's Sunshine;1924324 I would assume if it was a bite that the penisillen(sp?) and anitbotics might have taken care of it?[/quote]

Nope sorry to say. Pennicillin (antibiotic) would only prevent/treat secondary infection from the bite. Wouldn't do a thing if it was a toxin.

Please keep us posted as to his progress!

Morri · 03-05-2007, 07:20 AM

http://www.ultimatehorsesite.com/info/snakebite.html

Snake Bite

Bites from rattlesnakes are the most common, but water moccasins, copperheads, and corral snakebites also occur.

What you see:

Most bites occur on the face, usually the muzzle. The reason is because a horse will go up to a snake and sniff it out of curiosity. Bites on the legs are less common than those on the face. Bites on the face usually begin to swell rapidly, but bites on the legs have little swelling. A horse that has been bitten on the face will usually look, and act, miserable. The nose and lips will be swollen, and the eyes may be swollen shut. The swelling may extend up to the ears.
What to do:

If your horse has been bitten on the face, and you get to it shortly after it was bitten, you need to keep its nostrils from swelling shut. Cut two pieces of garden hose, or similar tubing, about 5 inches long. Put one in each nostril, and tape them into place. Do not tape over the openings. As the swelling continues, the tape can be removed, as the tape will hold the pieces in place. As the swelling begins to go down, the pieces will fall out.
In severe cases, it may be necessary for a vet to perform a tracheotomy to allow the horse to breathe.

Do not cut the horse and try to suck or drain the venom. This can just do more harm, as it can frighten the horse and, if you accidentally cut a major blood vessel, even help the venom into the bloodstream.
Apply an ice pack to the affected area, but don't leave it on for more than an hour or it could cause frostbite.
Don't ever apply a tourniquet to horses.
Get the horse to a vet, the sooner the better. Keep the horse calm, and don't move him much. Trailer him as far as you can, and walk him as little as possible. Most horses that are bitten don't die, but they may have tissue damage that could develop into osteomyelitis (bone infection) or gangrene, leading to death. Animals that recover may take weeks or months to do so.

Also please see:
http://www.hoofcare.com/article_pdf/...sKnot7D4CD.pdf

This describes the symptoms of a spider bite at the coronary band.

Generally this will cause swelling of the lips, tongue and throat.

Shay's Sunshine · 03-06-2007, 03:15 PM

thanks for all the good snake bite inf. Vets say "no" in our case, however, have no other explaination. Took x-rays of cannon bone, fetlock and found nothing.

Moved him to another vet. Went by this morning and looks like Shay has scraped a little of his hoof (from the Cornary band to where the old abcess had come out about half way down his hoof) I assume he must have done this during one of his "episodes" during the night.

Oh yeah, vets say not epilspsy (sp?) either.

Still stumped

Reyven · 03-06-2007, 03:49 PM

Wow, I have never heard of something like this. The first thing I would think of would be something like epilespsy, but they say that's not the case...
Have they done a bone density test? (not sure if that would show up in the x-rays..) to be sure the bone isn't actually deterioratity, such as bone cancer or anything?
Just at thought...=/

Shay's Sunshine · 03-07-2007, 07:21 PM

Still no clue on what is going on with my guy.

Chiro seems to be my last hope.

03-04-2007, 04:01 PM	#11
Chester Senior Member+ Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: inland of the coral sea Posts: 8,683 Images: 701	Yes, I though of that, but it would not explain the swelling or mark. I think I would be looking at a bite of some sort, spider, snake? I wouldnt have a clue as to what sort though living on the other side of the pond. __________________ Aussie Aussie Aussie OI OI OI "We're all members of the outback club, we don't back down and we don't give up" Lee Kernaghan "Good friends are worth more than money any day" Adam Brand Is it full moon time again? Did the cereal truck overturn and fruitloops got spilt?

03-05-2007, 07:05 AM	#15
Morri Senior Member+ Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,072 Images: 94	OK Mucking is done and I've had a cuppa so the brain can answer LOL One would hope that MOST vets would be able to diagnose the puncture wounds of a snake bite. Also, MOST vets should be able to make a smear and do a quick, if not complete blood differential. One would expect to see an increase in eosinophiles if this was an allergic reaction to a spider bite. Also MOST vets, sadly to say, will automatically give a shot of pennicillin (antibiotic) as a preventative to secondary infection and to make the owner think that they have done SOMETHING (also makes them more $$). Too many years as a tech I guess. You mentiion that this has gone on for a week now with an increase in severity not a decrease. If the bite was toxic, one would expect the horse to have passed by a week without treatment. If it was a neurotoxin, it could be causeing siezures, but again after a week???? My gut says to look deeper. __________________ "Being born of the human race instead of the animal kingdom does not give you more rights. It gives you more responsibilities."

03-05-2007, 07:08 AM	#16
Morri Senior Member+ Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,072 Images: 94	[quote=Shay's Sunshine;1924324 I would assume if it was a bite that the penisillen(sp?) and anitbotics might have taken care of it?[/quote] Nope sorry to say. Pennicillin (antibiotic) would only prevent/treat secondary infection from the bite. Wouldn't do a thing if it was a toxin. Please keep us posted as to his progress! __________________ "Being born of the human race instead of the animal kingdom does not give you more rights. It gives you more responsibilities."

03-05-2007, 07:20 AM	#17
Morri Senior Member+ Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,072 Images: 94	http://www.ultimatehorsesite.com/info/snakebite.html Snake Bite Bites from rattlesnakes are the most common, but water moccasins, copperheads, and corral snakebites also occur. What you see: Most bites occur on the face, usually the muzzle. The reason is because a horse will go up to a snake and sniff it out of curiosity. Bites on the legs are less common than those on the face. Bites on the face usually begin to swell rapidly, but bites on the legs have little swelling. A horse that has been bitten on the face will usually look, and act, miserable. The nose and lips will be swollen, and the eyes may be swollen shut. The swelling may extend up to the ears. What to do: If your horse has been bitten on the face, and you get to it shortly after it was bitten, you need to keep its nostrils from swelling shut. Cut two pieces of garden hose, or similar tubing, about 5 inches long. Put one in each nostril, and tape them into place. Do not tape over the openings. As the swelling continues, the tape can be removed, as the tape will hold the pieces in place. As the swelling begins to go down, the pieces will fall out. In severe cases, it may be necessary for a vet to perform a tracheotomy to allow the horse to breathe. Do not cut the horse and try to suck or drain the venom. This can just do more harm, as it can frighten the horse and, if you accidentally cut a major blood vessel, even help the venom into the bloodstream. Apply an ice pack to the affected area, but don't leave it on for more than an hour or it could cause frostbite. Don't ever apply a tourniquet to horses. Get the horse to a vet, the sooner the better. Keep the horse calm, and don't move him much. Trailer him as far as you can, and walk him as little as possible. Most horses that are bitten don't die, but they may have tissue damage that could develop into osteomyelitis (bone infection) or gangrene, leading to death. Animals that recover may take weeks or months to do so. Also please see: http://www.hoofcare.com/article_pdf/...sKnot7D4CD.pdf This describes the symptoms of a spider bite at the coronary band. Generally this will cause swelling of the lips, tongue and throat. __________________ "Being born of the human race instead of the animal kingdom does not give you more rights. It gives you more responsibilities."

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03-04-2007, 07:31 PM	#12
Shay's Sunshine Full Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 267 Images: 13	Thanks for the suggestions - has anyone had experinence with Lymphangitis? Basically an infected wound, that spreads infection up the lymphatic vessels of the leg. I found this in a vet book. I only guess that because the vet gave him penicillin and strong antibotics. I am anxious to talk to vets again in morning. Unfortuanetly, I caught one vet Friday 5:00 closing time and talked to a different weekend vet Saturday. And that is what he had done along witht he x-ray that showed nothing. I will post his report tomorrow for your interest - I hope he has some answers!

03-05-2007, 07:01 AM	#14
Shay's Sunshine Full Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 267 Images: 13	I had gone on trails with him one day, couldn't come out the next day to see him but barn owner said he came in fine to eat around 1 pm (they are out 24/7), I came out the next day and when I went out to get him, he was lame and then you know the rest. It could be possible some kind of poision bite since I was on trails. It did get worse and did seem to go UP his leg. Can't wait to hear from vet's today - I would assume if it was a bite that the penisillen(sp?) and anitbotics might have taken care of it?

03-06-2007, 03:15 PM	#18
Shay's Sunshine Full Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 267 Images: 13	thanks for all the good snake bite inf. Vets say "no" in our case, however, have no other explaination. Took x-rays of cannon bone, fetlock and found nothing. Moved him to another vet. Went by this morning and looks like Shay has scraped a little of his hoof (from the Cornary band to where the old abcess had come out about half way down his hoof) I assume he must have done this during one of his "episodes" during the night. Oh yeah, vets say not epilspsy (sp?) either. Still stumped

03-06-2007, 03:49 PM	#19
Reyven Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: GA Posts: 1,017 Images: 14 Blog Entries: 3	Wow, I have never heard of something like this. The first thing I would think of would be something like epilespsy, but they say that's not the case... Have they done a bone density test? (not sure if that would show up in the x-rays..) to be sure the bone isn't actually deterioratity, such as bone cancer or anything? Just at thought...=/

03-07-2007, 07:21 PM	#20
Shay's Sunshine Full Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 267 Images: 13	Still no clue on what is going on with my guy. Chiro seems to be my last hope.