[Wounded]

What is your take on the recent string of injuries and worse fatalities? What do you think is the leading factor?
How do you see eventing evolving in the next year? two years? decade?

If you have a moment or two to spare read this article. It's extremely insightful and I think a good basis to begin a discussion.
http://equisearch.com/horses_riding_...408/index.aspx

[IIIBarsV]

I don't event. I have never evented. I have ridden a training level cross country course on a green horse, though, and found it pretty exhilarating. I almost ate it at the stone wall, because my horse thought it was unsafe and refused with a twist (despite jumping 3'3 plywood "stone walls"). He didn't even want to hop over the stone wall that was about a foot high. It was squared limestone blocks. And yet at home, I have a rock pile that is about 2'9 high and easily 6 feet wide. He jumps that without a second glance, gleefully. At the same course, he also sailed over a 3' row of tires strung on a pole like big black beads. What did he hate about that little tiny puny stone wall?

You really have to wonder.

Jumping is granted as a very dangerous sport. Accidents happen. Horses get hurt doing it in showring jumper, hunter, field hunting, etc. The way I see it, the what makes a jump more dangerous than another is dependant on the size of the jump (height and width), and how solid the jump is.

In effect the experts have designed a new sport, where riders steeplechase over solid jumps.

<--- From article, page 2.

He's hit the nail on the head, and it was precisely what I was thinking. If you hit a non-fixed jump, such as plain rails with plain jump cups, you'll knock it down and throw it maybe, but your chances of getting into a wreck are not as high as hitting a fixed gigantic log. The log doesn't roll off, it stays where it is. The horse stays with it, and gets hung up or does a somersault. I think we all cringe at that one, eventer rider or not!

3. This last part might be a little bit my fault, and I apologize. Due to the recent increased importance of dressage and show jumping to the competitive outcome, I have stopped telling people to find a horse with the "look of eagles." Horses who are successful in competition these days are extraordinary movers and powerful, careful show jumpers. But finding one who combines all this with the look of eagles is nearly impossible. Thus when we compromise, we must compromise on the horse's movement, not on his agility. I now recognize that more than ever these are the qualities we need, qualities of the horse's spirit. Certainly we need great movers and powerful jumpers, but above all we need a partner, not a slave. We need horses who are supremely courageous, fiercely independent and phenomenally agile.

<---- Page 4, bottom.

I love this one. I was just thinking today as I was lunging the aforementioned previously green hunter how proud and flashy he is, how confident and full of himself. The bigger the crowd, the harder he'd try.

This is the quality that has made him a phenomenal show horse, and it also the quality I look for (aside from conformation, movement, suitability, etc) when picking a prospect, no matter the discipline.

I rode my western pleasure mare tonight for the first time in a while, and she snorted *slowly* every time I asked her to do something. But she did it all as if she was in the showring, every stride floaty, perfect rhythym, perfect collection, ears up, expression bright. But snorting oh so slowly.

My little roan mare walks around show grounds like she owns the place with a happy expression, a sauntering walk. If she's near another horse, she'll sniff and look very cute, but as soon as they acknowledge her, she gives them a dirty look and will nip as if to say "I'm better than you!". She is still in training but tries very hard to learn and be consistant. She's not even winning anything yet, but she's already a rockstar.

This "Flash" that usually comes along with a dominant attitude makes these horses stand out, and gives them the pluck to be competitive any time they go out, even if they have a bad ride. I love how he describes it in the article, "the look of eagles". Pride, dominance, attitude, flash. The bedouins knew it, that's why they bred arabians with hot little attitudes, who even when quiet as mouses always seem to have that certain flash. The halter horse people have it figured out too, although they forget conformation sometimes. lol

Either way, I think I will stick with my barrel racing, dressage, and pleasure performance events........ eventing has a huge number of bowed tendons, by the way... if you don't already have a GameReady, you should get one now.

[naughtygirl]

I only managed to read page 1 and 2, but wow, what an interesting read!
Im not sure if it puts me off eventing all together, but it sure puts me off my dream of wanting to go bigger!
I currently do Pre Novice, and want to move up to Novice next HT season. But in a way, im rather scared! Do i really want to risk mine and my horse life just for the thrill of riding around a bigger more challenging course.
Hmmm, once i read the whole thing il post again.

[horseguy]

Great article.

I have been thinking about the current eventing problems and possible rule changes that might help the sport. What I came up with so far is that some younger riders are safer than others. What I think differentiates many young riders, say under 25, from older adult riders is the way they process situational information. In a decision making matrix that looks like a tree the process of making decisions has branches that are based on “if this happens, I will go down this branch, and if that happens I will go down that branch”. In my experience coaching younger riders, they do not (a) have as many branch plans as adults, and (b) they do not process an unfolding situation as effectively and implement a branch plan as well as adults.

As a result, I spend a lot of time coaching younger riders in cross country on the decision making process to help them be safe and win. The basis of becoming more effective in this process is awareness. For example, I say, “If you land that first jump of the combination and you find yourself off the line of even striding to the second jump, what do you do?” The first answer is usually something like, “Kick *** and grab mane”, not a safe option. We then evaluate the options and the pros and cons of each. The “kick ***” option is basically to lengthen the stride to get back on stride. It has the down side of if the horse cannot get back on stride by means of more extension the rider is fully committed to the jump in full extension and maybe not in optimum striding, which can mean a wreck. This is very risky unless the horse is top notch.

The next option is to shorten the stride after landing in order to get back on stride to the second jump, but this has the risk of losing impulsion and not having the power to jump a big second fence in a combination, which can mean a refusal and penalty points.

The third option is to circle and get the horse back on stride in the greater room offered by a circle. (There are some potential complications here around the rules regarding when a circle is too close to a jump. A circle between two tight jumps might be considered a refusal resulting in a penalty, but I will ignore these subtleties here. Even so, a penalty is better than a wreck.) Yes, the rider loses several 10ths of a second in the circle, maybe even seconds, but the risk of a wreck or refusal is basically eliminated. Plus, on landing the last jump the rider can make up the lost time by applying greater speed to the next jump, which is quite a distance away. (As the competition levels get higher, the option of increased speed to make up time diminishes because the required time for the course is already very fast.)

Adults think these options through, and almost always come up with the answer being the safest surest choice. Not so with kids. They often tend to choose to the “kick ***” option and aggressively argue that the horse can do it. It usually takes a failure of some kind, which hopefully does not include a visit to the hospital, to convince some of them. I regularly get emails from parents asking if their child can safely move up a level of competition. My answer, if the horse and rider are well schooled, is always, “Yes, if they make the correct decisions” and I add that they must to try to win at the new level until they have competed there for a while.

It’s a dangerous sport and unlike sports like mountain climbing, a coach cannot go up the mountain with the kid. Most younger riders have a youthfully skewed decision making process. Adults get distracted from their superior process, and even if the rider makes all the right decisions at the right time, accidents happen. This is a sport that is now very popular and attracting new participants every day. Every time a new rider calls a 3-day event or horse trials (all three phases dressage, cross country and stadium jumping in one day) a “show”, I cringe. It is not a horse show, and many new participants don’t get that important fact.


My proposed rule change is that circles in front of jump be penalized less in terms of time lost. For example, a jump judge could note a circle by a rider in front of a jump, and by rule part of the time for the circle would be deducted. This would encourage more circling in front of jumps, and it would cut down on the hectic rushing that is at the heart of all the injuries, in my opinion. The time deducted for a circle could be fixed for each level. Also, riders could be allowed to circle closer to jumps without penalty. Basically, the sport needs to reward and make room for cautious good judgment.


As an amateur military historian and rider I think because the origins of Combined Training are based in a military tradition and perspective (Eventing was first called “The Military”) that the rules changes above are in keeping with the military principle of considered judgment, and contrary to the current impulsiveness that has replaced judgment in contemporary eventing. In other words, the current stupidity is not part of the sport’s military tradition.

[palominolady]

Hello,
I am a new member. I live in Georgia but see you are in Canada. My parents are in Goderich Ontario and sister in Deep River Ontario. I go up every summer for the month of July. My sister up there has a Clyde/Trakaner cross. Any chances you are close to any of them? My sister would love a riding buddy or contact. We both study the Parelli methods as well as other trainers. Just trail riders.

[sorrell]

I only read part of it, but I attended the World three day events in Lexington a number of years back and saw one woman break her back in the show jumping, a rider get his ear torn off by a hoof, and a horse fall on that same rider on the same jump in cross country. A number of horses were retired for heat stress.
then, they were discussing the grueling pace, and a possibility of spacing the three day event out over four days with a break after the cross country.
A few years ago I heard that the jumps were getting more difficult because the horses and riders were getting too good.
as for steeple chasing and such, that has always been a dangerous sport for horse and rider.
I think you can regulate things all you want, but like others said, if you sit on a rocket to the moon, you can expect to have fatalities at some point. It is inherently dangerous to even stand near a horse, as well as to ride one, and to ride one fast at imovable objects in the company of others moving rapidly in the same direction....
I do think heat can be a factor in fatigue and accidents as well.

[tbtrainer]

My short answer is that they need to bring back the long format, and the vet box....

I really agree with JW about horses needing to be self-thinkers...and that the upper levels of dressage are hindering this.

[Wounded]

Ages of riders involved in serious eventing accidents from Feb 07 to Apr 08
24
41
62
43
12
21
29
32
40
29
20
17
34
37
30

5 of the 16 are under the age of 25, so is it correct to say that young riders are the denominator in these accidents? Many of the riders were experienced eventers, some obtaining injuries at levels below their capability.

While judgment may be the leading cause of the deaths and accidents it is fair to say that age is not. Making that claim is to say that riding experience is dictated by amount of years spent riding, and as a coach I think you can agree that quantity does not always equate with quality. Therefore I think it is safe to say that the problem still remains: what is the leading factor?

Denny Emerson in Chronicle of the Horse:

There will be some rule maven on here who can correct me if I`m wrong, but I`m pretty sure that the speeds of 520 for prel, 550 for int, and 570 for adv have been the same since I started eventing in 1962.

But the x-c courses are very different than "back when."
Nobody who has been really "in the sport" for say, 15-20 years, will argue that many, if not most x-c courses have become much more technical.

This past summer someone was describing some advanced track they`d just watched as being like "a three mile Hickstead Jumping Derby over solid obstacles."

But the way horses generally get faults in jumping derbies is by having the rails fall down, not the horses.
As horses have to be slowed down and set up to negotiate technical questions, it then stands to reason that, in order to make time, the riders will "book" at the fairly straightforward ones.

Even our very greatest, Bruce, Mark Todd, Blyth Tait, have missed and had crashing falls, so what chance does a mere mortal have to always get the right distance on a horse that is "flying low" at high speeds, often tired, to make the time?
Sure, you say, the rider doesn`t have to make the time, he/she can slow down and ride better distances from better balance, but good eventers are first and foremost competitive people who want to do well.

I know, partly because I am one, and because I`ve spent the last 45 years in close proximity to thousands of them.
So if we are determined that we want more technical xc courses, and it seems we do, then I think our speeds may well be outmoded.

Heck, we`ve already done away with the heart of "speed and endurance", why not go the rest of the way and try lowering speeds by, lets say, 20 meters a minute, to 500, 530, and 550 for the 3 upper levels?

It might not be the answer, but at this point, we better try something, probably a number of somethings, if we want this sport to survive.

The way it`s going now has got to change, and fast, or some outside entity will change it for us, which might not be the worst thing in the world if we are found to be unable to police our own sport for the wellbeing of its participants.
I am way past thinking "It`s just an accident, and accidents will happen."
Not like this, not this many, no way.

My experience in the eventing realm is limited but from what I've observed it seems that the recent changes haven't had their desired effect of promoting a safer sport. I think it relates back to the riders judgment and the horse's dependency on the rider.

Is going back to long format the answer? It may be worth a try. Some have been speculating about introducing collapsible fences, but removing the sport from its origins even further will lead to a sport unknown to horses and riders, not eventing as we know it.

Said by Mark Todd on the topic of his comeback:

The level of expertise in dressage and jumping is much-improved, he said, but he wasn't so sure that enough attention is given to cross-country skills. And he commented that the new style of cross-country design with narrower fences was different. "I'm all for control and accuracy - but nothing tricky," he pointed out.

[I LUV BESS]

personally, i think long format and vet box ahould be bought back... but thats just me...

plus i love the steeplechase

[Wounded]

Originally Posted by naughtygirl

I only managed to read page 1 and 2, but wow, what an interesting read!
Im not sure if it puts me off eventing all together, but it sure puts me off my dream of wanting to go bigger!
I currently do Pre Novice, and want to move up to Novice next HT season. But in a way, im rather scared! Do i really want to risk mine and my horse life just for the thrill of riding around a bigger more challenging course.
Hmmm, once i read the whole thing il post again.

I wouldn't look at it as a 'frightening' experience. It's best to understand what you're getting into before doing so, even if that means researching deaths and injuries in the sport. Ignorance is not bliss. To become successful at a sport you have to understand it and be open to it, that includes the dangers.

I hope it doesn't put you off from eventing, it is a wonderful sport but the truth is that it is very demanding. You need know what it entails and how to prepare yourself accordingly for it. Thats why all the negative aspects are being capitalized. In order for the sport to grow in a positive manner the problems need to be identified and uprooted.