English

DunLegend · 08-01-2008, 06:35 AM

I have a WP horse who I'd like to be able to do both western and english. He is a QH, so he's trained to drop his head....but when I ask for speed, he more like drags his nose on the ground, so when I ask him to pick his head back up....he slows down.

I also did some work on getting him to go into the bit...instead of the "normal" AQHA HUS pose...and I think that might be better, just because his neck is shorter, and he can hold his head up more without totally losing his pace and stirde.

Will this totally mess up his WP training? Or will he learn when to go into the bit more, and when to carry his own frame..like when to go western or english?

rascalboy · 08-01-2008, 01:27 PM

My mare is a paint, so she naturally does the western frame. Lol, and I'm training her for dressage (which she does better than most horses

)
So, when you ride english, you sit different (or you'd better; we don't like straight backs), have different tack, and ask him to move different. He'll soon come to realize that western tack means low and slow, and english tack means collected and faster.
As for him dropping his head, slowing down, ect., you need a dressage lesson. So, in english, we have our reins tight, since we have no curb that requires a looser rein. When you have him on the bit (which isn't just a headset; the horse does it all on his own if you ride the right way), you're holding him on the outside rein. You could completely drop the inside rein, and he should keep going the same way he was before.
So he really shouldn't be able to drop his head. You should have constant contact with the outside rein and he shouldn't be able to drop his head. Now, the outside rein controls the speed. The inside leg makes him faster (or collects). Lol, not confusing at all...
So, get his head where you want it, and then set your arm so the outside rein has contact. If he tries to drop his head, don't give to him. Just bump him with the inside leg to pick his head up. So ask for the trot. Bump every other stride (or whenever you post, or whatever is more comfortable). Yes, bump him. Hold the outside steady and fairly tight (there should be no drooping in the rein. If it starts bobbing, or loosening/tightening with every stride, either you're moving your hands (bad!

) or your horse is lame. (also bad).) When every time you bump with the inside leg, he'll be pushed up into the bridle (if you have your reins right) and he'll do much better.
Yeah, I know I'm confusing...

DunLegend · 08-01-2008, 07:03 PM

But that's dressage...I think Im thinking more hunter/jumper style...and I don't know if I should do that or the more tradition AQHA HUS long neck head down sorta thing...

dotgotcalm · 08-02-2008, 05:08 AM

Most horses can do both WP & HUS but not all. Unless your horse has a big pretty trot it's probably not worth the effort to retrain him for HUS. It IS easy to confuse one and mess up WP so, if you really want to do HUS I'd recommend that you take him to someone who trains for both and let them at least get him started down the right road. If he's good minded this could be a pretty short time...say 30 to 60 days but you'll need to really understand and be able to apply whatever cues they use to raise him up before you take him home. Good luck.

rascalboy · 08-02-2008, 06:45 AM

Quote:

But that's dressage...I think Im thinking more hunter/jumper style...and I don't know if I should do that or the more tradition AQHA HUS long neck head down sorta thing...

Well that's easy. Put his head level, let him stick his nose down, lean forward and kick him. I boarded at a big hunter barn. Those horses moved ugly...
Anywho, whether it's dressage or not, the principle is the same. Hold the outside and push with the inside leg.

DunLegend · 08-02-2008, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Those horses moved ugly

Not necessary..I just got into a big deal with these people on this other forum for bashing..let's not start it here.

If you don't like how HUS horses move don't help me.

JBandRio · 08-02-2008, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rascalboy

Well that's easy. Put his head level, let him stick his nose down, lean forward and kick him. I boarded at a big hunter barn. Those horses moved ugly...
Anywho, whether it's dressage or not, the principle is the same. Hold the outside and push with the inside leg.

Based on your comments on another similar post, the "hunters" you have seen have not been well-trained at all.

JumpingBean · 08-02-2008, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rascalboy

Well that's easy. Put his head level, let him stick his nose down, lean forward and kick him. I boarded at a big hunter barn. Those horses moved ugly...
Anywho, whether it's dressage or not, the principle is the same. Hold the outside and push with the inside leg.

That is not the correct way to train a hunter, or the way a good hunter should move. Doesn't matter how big the barn is.

rascalboy · 08-02-2008, 07:44 PM

Quote:

---Quote---
Those horses moved ugly
---End Quote---
Not necessary..I just got into a big deal with these people on this other forum for bashing..let's not start it here.

If you don't like how HUS horses move don't help me.

True. I was saying that the hunter horses at my barn moved ugly. I'm not bashing HUS horses, just the badly trained horses at the hunter barns I've been at.

Quote:

Based on your comments on another similar post, the "hunters" you have seen have not been well-trained at all.

You got that right.

Yes, I do know what good hunters look like. Going back to that other thread you mentioned I posted on, I also added that the hunter ladies at my new barn have very well trained horses. Lol, even my dressage trainer judge guy competed in hunters, and even gave me a lesson in the style. I do know what good hunters look like, and I can tell that the barns I've boarded/took lessons at did stink pretty bad. So that sorta ruined it for me, as these giant barns are training tons of kids on stinky moving horses, then letting them buy more stinky horses (or sticking the spirited ones in so much gear they look stinky like all the others) and then training them to be stinky.
Anywho, I do like the nice well trained hunters that don't look like they're about to kill someone or break their martingale, like the ladies competing successfully in the bigger shows at my new barn. I just don't like the stinky mass-produced HUS horses they have all in my area.
Well, you've heard my opinions, and now I'm going to shut up, because my food is cold already...

gluey33 · 08-04-2008, 04:40 AM

Most QHs here that show WP will also show HUS. But not all af them, as dot said some canhandle both some cant. If you really want to excell at one then stick to it and the classes that have similar gates. If your just out there to have a go then do what makes you happy.

08-01-2008, 06:35 AM	#1
DunLegend Full Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 88	English I have a WP horse who I'd like to be able to do both western and english. He is a QH, so he's trained to drop his head....but when I ask for speed, he more like drags his nose on the ground, so when I ask him to pick his head back up....he slows down. I also did some work on getting him to go into the bit...instead of the "normal" AQHA HUS pose...and I think that might be better, just because his neck is shorter, and he can hold his head up more without totally losing his pace and stirde. Will this totally mess up his WP training? Or will he learn when to go into the bit more, and when to carry his own frame..like when to go western or english?

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08-01-2008, 01:27 PM	#2
rascalboy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 568 Images: 4	My mare is a paint, so she naturally does the western frame. Lol, and I'm training her for dressage (which she does better than most horses ) So, when you ride english, you sit different (or you'd better; we don't like straight backs), have different tack, and ask him to move different. He'll soon come to realize that western tack means low and slow, and english tack means collected and faster. As for him dropping his head, slowing down, ect., you need a dressage lesson. So, in english, we have our reins tight, since we have no curb that requires a looser rein. When you have him on the bit (which isn't just a headset; the horse does it all on his own if you ride the right way), you're holding him on the outside rein. You could completely drop the inside rein, and he should keep going the same way he was before. So he really shouldn't be able to drop his head. You should have constant contact with the outside rein and he shouldn't be able to drop his head. Now, the outside rein controls the speed. The inside leg makes him faster (or collects). Lol, not confusing at all... So, get his head where you want it, and then set your arm so the outside rein has contact. If he tries to drop his head, don't give to him. Just bump him with the inside leg to pick his head up. So ask for the trot. Bump every other stride (or whenever you post, or whatever is more comfortable). Yes, bump him. Hold the outside steady and fairly tight (there should be no drooping in the rein. If it starts bobbing, or loosening/tightening with every stride, either you're moving your hands (bad! ) or your horse is lame. (also bad).) When every time you bump with the inside leg, he'll be pushed up into the bridle (if you have your reins right) and he'll do much better. Yeah, I know I'm confusing...

08-01-2008, 07:03 PM	#3
DunLegend Full Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 88	But that's dressage...I think Im thinking more hunter/jumper style...and I don't know if I should do that or the more tradition AQHA HUS long neck head down sorta thing...

08-02-2008, 05:08 AM	#4
dotgotcalm Senior Member+ Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 555 Images: 4	Most horses can do both WP & HUS but not all. Unless your horse has a big pretty trot it's probably not worth the effort to retrain him for HUS. It IS easy to confuse one and mess up WP so, if you really want to do HUS I'd recommend that you take him to someone who trains for both and let them at least get him started down the right road. If he's good minded this could be a pretty short time...say 30 to 60 days but you'll need to really understand and be able to apply whatever cues they use to raise him up before you take him home. Good luck.

08-04-2008, 04:40 AM	#10
gluey33 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 625 Images: 8	Most QHs here that show WP will also show HUS. But not all af them, as dot said some canhandle both some cant. If you really want to excell at one then stick to it and the classes that have similar gates. If your just out there to have a go then do what makes you happy.