[SpiritSaddle]

So I've been emailing with a Mustang Horse Rescue and they said something about stopping mustang slaughter. I wrote back asking what would happen with all the mustangs that were not slaughtered but also not adopted. Here's what I got back, what do you think?

"Hi Angelika;

The thing with the Mustangs is that they have been mismanaged horribly by the BLM. If natural predators (wolves, mountain lions) were left alone in areas where there are horse herds, we would have NO reason to remove horses from the wild. This has been proven in two herd areas where, for awhile, mountain lions were not killed and foals born became their food. Herd sizes did not grow at all when the mountain lions were there. The predators are removed for 2 reasons: the first is because of privately owned livestock losses to predators. Our government uses tax dollars to hunt them so they will not bother the livestock. The livestock in the West accounts for only 3% of all beef produced in the U.S. The state of Florida is the highest producer of beef. The 2nd is for hunting revenues. Predators take out young deer and elk, bighorn sheep, etc. This causes a loss of hunting revenue to the States. This is what needs to change. The horses are supposed to be managed as a "natural part of the ecosystem". They are not and have never been. Now, as to what would we do with all of the ones that are already captured and not adoptable? Many could be placed at rescues such as ours with a one time grant from the government. Remember, our government pays over a million dollars every year just to have predators killed, and pays about 23 million a year to the livestock industries for various reasons - that is a subject you'd have to do research on to find out all of the particulars on. The grant could be a one time fee paid. Right now, they are offering people like us $100.00 for every horse we will take. That would barely cover their feed for a month and isn't near enough to help. Others could be humanely destroyed then cremated or the meat sent to zoos or even starving countries. Right now, the meat from horses slaughtered in our country by foreign owned slaughterhouses is sold in Europe and Asia for as much as $21.00 a pound. Again, this would be a one time thing if they would start managing the horses correctly. There actually is no over population of wild horses. There is, however, an over population of private livestock on our public lands. Cattle and sheep have decimated the grazing lands of the West. There are millions of cattle - just 20,000 horses. There are about 200,000.00 deer - MILLIONS of cattle - and they are grazing in our national forests as well as on nearly every bit of land that is public.

If slaughtering horses is necessary, then it MUST be done differently than it is done with livestock. The chutes that the horses are in for the strike cannot contain them for a humane strike. That is the big problem and no one from our government is making sure that this process is being done so that the horse does not suffer. Horses are struck 3, 4 times all about the head before the strike that finally drops them to the ground. Even then, many are not unconscious and are fully aware that they are hanging upside down by one leg - they just can't move, but they still feel pain. That just is not right.

Thanks for taking an interest and I'm sorry I made this a little long! I hope your 4-H group will get involved in the issue. The horses need people who care and will fight for their humane treatment.

Bye now . . .

Debbie Gates
Sec/Treas
WindFlyers Mustang Sanctuary
& Equine Rescue
http://www.windflyers.org/
runningfree@windflyers.org "

[Shotgun93]

Most of her reasons stated involving predators, livestock and government revenue are very misinformed. There is much more to the removal of predators than the ones that were stated.

A one time government grant to rescue organizations isn't going to help long term management. Plus, how does the gov't decide who gets how much? Is it based on the number of horses, number of BLM horses or the amount of land the rescue has? And who regulates that? What would they do about the questionable rescues who adopt a bunch horses to get a bigger grant and then get rid of them and keep the money?

[SpiritSaddle]

Yeah I'll include those in the next email I write back. Also about the slaughtering, I thought it was done differently?

[doublebarr]

I can find one obvious mis-statement already. The beef production information she provided is wrong. Go here: USDA-NASS Quick Stats ( U.S. & All States Data - Internal Error <br>Error loading Federal screen <br>Please return to Main Menu )

Then put in your search parameters and these are the numbers as of the last reliable date of 2005:
USDA-NASS Quick Stats (null)

Keep in mind, these are recorded in the thousands, so Flordia's 1,710 is 1,710,000.
It shows Flordia with 1,710. But is shows:

Arkansas with 1,860
California with 5,400
Colorado with 2,500
Idaho with 2,060
Iowa with 3,600
Kansas with 6,600
Kentucky with 2,250
Minnesota with 2,400
Missouri with 4,400
Montana with 2,350
Nebraska with 6,350
Oklaholma with 5,350
South Dakota with 3,700
Texas with 13,700
And so on.

So her numbers are way, way, way wrong just in this one area.

[Blistering Winds]

West only accounts for 3%???

Ok, I'm going to try ot be professional about this.....I'm pulling numbers right now...

She may have read this article...

Florida Crop/Pest Management Profile: Beef Cattle


However, Florida is UP there, they DO have the largest "HERDS", but not hte largest amount of cattle.

Where many states, the owners run 1000 head at most at each location....Florida has FEWER ranches, but run MORE "HEAD" on each ranch.

But they do not take the "majority" of cattle. They do on the "east coast" but not compared to the western states, where over 75% of cattle are grazed and produced for BEEF.

Dairy industry has a hold in the upper Mid-west, but expanding further south to combat winter downs (and they are finding a hold here in the pan Handle of texas too....


Hold on, i'll have actual current numbers in just a few minutes

[Blistering Winds]

doublebarr....that site isn't working for me.

stupid computer...

[doublebarr]

I just went to it again, and it's working fine for me.

Where some confusion comes in, may be if she is using boxed beef numbers. Flordia will have huge boxed beef numbers because of importing. That means, they are taking the numbers from beef imported and including them in their "USA" stats, which is extremely incorrect. More ports, means higher boxed beef numbers, not more animals on the ground.

[Blistering Winds]

I was sent this site.....for your rescue to read.

Grazing Benefits

For "federal land" information and cattle.

WHICH Cattlemen DO pay for....and I got conformation by the National Cattlemans association just a few seconds ago.

[Blistering Winds]

The other problem people do not understand...is the QUALITY of the land in each state...

I just ran across one FLAMING Site about open ranges and how "new york" can run 16000 cattle operations, arizona can to on their 3000 operations.

However, More CATTLE live in Arizona compared to New York on a "HEAD" count, AND, New York has richer, more "full" grazing pastures and hay supply that Arizona has. New Mexico has the same issue, and so does parts of the Pan Handle of Texas. Where a cow in New York can live off of 1 acre for a year, 1 acre of Arizona can't sustain a cow for a day. Which is why we need more "area" to roam and graze, because of the QUALITY of grazing isn't there.



Hold on, NCA is sending me another link.....

[Blistering Winds]

Here we go. Not quite what I was hoping for....but shows beef cattle numbers over "total" cattle at least.

this was as of 2001.....a new one he said is being worked on now with the new numbers, but from what he can tell, the "states" have not changed much in "status" of beef producers.

Beef Cattle Production Profiles