Dressage help!!

kbreitfeld · 09-17-2006, 01:28 PM

So first, i need reasurance that i am not the only one that rides Dressage that gets so intensely frusterated, you think other disciplines MUST be easier! Why dont i switch?

I had my first lesson since June today (the mare i ride foundered in June, and we discovered she had Cushings, she was lame until mid july, and then i broke my finger in july, and couldnt ride until the end of august!), I have ridden her the last 2 weekends, but havent done much. So i get on today, and i feel like i have gotten worse! Why am i not getting better? (well, other then my huge break) I have been working/riding at this dressage barn for 4 years, and i havent competed yet, just riding training level. I feel like i'm getting nowhere! (My instructor says i'm improving, its just i only ride 1-2 times a week, its hard to improve with that little ride time)

I am having a really hard time getting this mare round, and stepping under herself. (She is a 17 y/o swedish warmblood mare, very very bombproof, but can be stubborn at times). Does anyone have any advice? I seem to be having the most problem with riding one-sided. I forget to ride with BOTH reins, and both legs! That, and my hands wanting to be in my lap all the time!

Any training level dressage advice would be excellent, along with reassuring me that i'm not the only one that gets mega-frusterated!!!

The picture below is of her, and another rider at a show....I'm not the only one that has issues getting her on the bit!

Just_me · 09-17-2006, 01:54 PM

First of all you HAVE to be patient,no matter what diciplin you ride.I was trying to teach my horse lateral movements for almost 1 year-getting noowhere.I still worked hard and ofcourse i was furstrated at times but that didn`t stop me.When i least expected it,he had it down.Just keep practicing and keep your emotions out of it.If you give up you are right-you wound`t get nowhere

Honestly,the mare doesn`t look to bad.The only issue i see is that she is not working on the bit,and she could be a little rounder(just to be picky!).
How does her saddle fit?
Does she like the bit u are using?
Her teeth are ok?
If the answere to all of those questions is yes,try to get her working low and relaxed.Cavalettis or ground poles are a good exercise. Work on getting a nice even rythm and impulsion.
what do you do when you ask her to go on the bit?
you can`t just `make` her,you have to get her supple first.Give her a good,long warm up with lots of circles,bending,serpentines etc.
To actually get her on the bit you have to keep your hands very soft and half halt while you drive her into the bridle with your legs.You have to use equal amount meaning if you push in 2 pounds you have to take out the same amount,with your hands/reins.
If you really can`t get any further you can look into using draw reins(for riding)or side reins(for lunging),or a neck stretcher as an encorage ment.Have somone show you how to use them if you don`t now,because you can do lots of wrong.You can get inproper head possition,help the horse develop wrong muscles,lean on the bit etc.
Drawreins and sidereins should not be used for a longer period,it should only be an encoragement for the horse.
Do a search here on hgs,I know that there are lots of threats on how to get the horse on the bit.

kbreitfeld · 09-17-2006, 02:06 PM

Yes, her saddle fits, we had a saddle fitter out. The bit i ride her in, i cant find a picture of it, its like a basic loose ring snaffle, with a small ring on the top to attach to the bridle,and a larger ring on the bottom for the reins. Her teeth have recently been floated.

edit: I found a picture of the bit we use. http://www.frogpool.com/prod-238.jpg

I have a tendency to tense up when i ride and get frusterated, which makes it even worse. Today we worked on alot of turns on the forehand, bending, circles. This mare hasnt been worked much this summer due to her founder/cushings, so that somewhat contributes to her stubborness. She had alittle bucking fit for 2 days a couple weeks ago (bucked someone off, the next day i lunged her and was going to...but her back was REALLY sore...bucking bronco...she was going into a raging heat)) So recently i've been lunging her before i ride her, even though she is back to her quiet self again. It seems to help, and even though i feel like it's "cheating" my trainer said it will be ok to warm her up on the lunge for 10 min (with side reins), so i can get her on the bit better, and get a good feeling for what she SHOULD feel like, without killing myself (which happened today)

Thanks!

Cavalier · 09-17-2006, 02:11 PM

First of all, you are NOT alone, and second of all, dressage at any level is NOT easy!!!

I have found dressage to be the hardest, most time consuming, patience testing, mentally draining discipline of all, but the reward and satisfaction of finally getting certain movements or paces right is just amazing!

Stick with it...it WILL come together at some point...no, I can't give you a time frame, but if you continue to work at it with a GOOD dressage coach, you will get there.

I honestly think training and 1st level are HARD! Yes the tests and work is very basic, but I believe the basics are the hardest. You have to train to have the horse forward, relaxed and supple, moving with impulsion, straight and balanced, bending and flexing, regular and rhythmic, round and properly working on the bit, nice, clean transitions, responsive and obedient horse AND you have to ride an accurate test with a nice position all the while RIDING the horse (not just sitting there) in a positive influential manner. THAT IS NOT EASY!!!

At least when you start getting to 2nd level, ALL of that is establish...yes, you have to learn collection and lateral movements etc, but I believe most of the hard work is out of the way because you have a solid foundation at that point.

When I first got my horse it took him over a year to canter properly! I'm talking a WORKING canter...nothing fancy. Horses are individual and they struggle with different movements and/or paces, whether it be comformation, mentally or physically struggling etc...they all have their weakness's...and you know what? So do we!

The best way to improve is to 1. Be AWARE of your own faults and try and remind yourself of them regularly throughout the ride so that you can regularly correct them. 2. Get regular lessons if you can...once a week would be great. 3. Play around with different ideas.

To me, it sounds like you are aware of your faults, and the faults you have listed would most definitely be affecting the horse, it could very well be the reason why she doesn't like to come round. Having your hands in your lap would be robbing her of contact that she needs to properly work on the bit. You also need to have your legs on the horse at all times, even if you aren't using them...they need to be sitting there ready for use, whenever you need them.

Play around with different exercises, especially in the walk, eg, lots of bending and flexing and counter bending and flexing to get her nice and supple, long and low work. When you have it going well in walk, try it in trot.

Good luck with it all...you will be fine! Just be patient and remember that Rome wasn't built in a day

Cavalier · 09-17-2006, 05:22 PM

Ok...I just saw your edited post of the bit you are using.

Why isn't she in a snaffle? That bit is a Universal (type of gag) so it is a harsh bit. The small ring up the top adds extra pressure to the poll and the bottom ring gives you more leverage.

Technically, you SHOULD be able to have this horse head down in this bit. Most likely not 'properly' on the bit, but certainly with her head forced down from added pressure. Though this is NOT what you want.

Is there a good reason why she is in this bit and not in a regular loose ring snaffle?

ches · 09-17-2006, 06:43 PM

Sometimes you just don't click with a particular horse. I leased an Arab pony when I was 13 who competed at Elementary level (2nd level) and I couldn't get her on the bit once in a whole year! I thought it was me and went back to jumping, but then a very experienced, competent rider hopped on her one day and he couldn't get her on the bit either. She was just a very particular little mare. I had no trouble with the completely green TB I got when I turned 14 and managed to train her to go on the bit and do simple bending just fine. I just didn't click with the mare in the least.

09-17-2006, 01:28 PM	#1
kbreitfeld Full Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 86	Dressage help!! So first, i need reasurance that i am not the only one that rides Dressage that gets so intensely frusterated, you think other disciplines MUST be easier! Why dont i switch? I had my first lesson since June today (the mare i ride foundered in June, and we discovered she had Cushings, she was lame until mid july, and then i broke my finger in july, and couldnt ride until the end of august!), I have ridden her the last 2 weekends, but havent done much. So i get on today, and i feel like i have gotten worse! Why am i not getting better? (well, other then my huge break) I have been working/riding at this dressage barn for 4 years, and i havent competed yet, just riding training level. I feel like i'm getting nowhere! (My instructor says i'm improving, its just i only ride 1-2 times a week, its hard to improve with that little ride time) I am having a really hard time getting this mare round, and stepping under herself. (She is a 17 y/o swedish warmblood mare, very very bombproof, but can be stubborn at times). Does anyone have any advice? I seem to be having the most problem with riding one-sided. I forget to ride with BOTH reins, and both legs! That, and my hands wanting to be in my lap all the time! Any training level dressage advice would be excellent, along with reassuring me that i'm not the only one that gets mega-frusterated!!! The picture below is of her, and another rider at a show....I'm not the only one that has issues getting her on the bit!

09-17-2006, 01:54 PM	#2
Just_me Senior Member+ Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: europe-the wide wild world:-) Posts: 2,519 Images: 6	First of all you HAVE to be patient,no matter what diciplin you ride.I was trying to teach my horse lateral movements for almost 1 year-getting noowhere.I still worked hard and ofcourse i was furstrated at times but that didn`t stop me.When i least expected it,he had it down.Just keep practicing and keep your emotions out of it.If you give up you are right-you wound`t get nowhere Honestly,the mare doesn`t look to bad.The only issue i see is that she is not working on the bit,and she could be a little rounder(just to be picky!). How does her saddle fit? Does she like the bit u are using? Her teeth are ok? If the answere to all of those questions is yes,try to get her working low and relaxed.Cavalettis or ground poles are a good exercise. Work on getting a nice even rythm and impulsion. what do you do when you ask her to go on the bit? you can`t just `make` her,you have to get her supple first.Give her a good,long warm up with lots of circles,bending,serpentines etc. To actually get her on the bit you have to keep your hands very soft and half halt while you drive her into the bridle with your legs.You have to use equal amount meaning if you push in 2 pounds you have to take out the same amount,with your hands/reins. If you really can`t get any further you can look into using draw reins(for riding)or side reins(for lunging),or a neck stretcher as an encorage ment.Have somone show you how to use them if you don`t now,because you can do lots of wrong.You can get inproper head possition,help the horse develop wrong muscles,lean on the bit etc. Drawreins and sidereins should not be used for a longer period,it should only be an encoragement for the horse. Do a search here on hgs,I know that there are lots of threats on how to get the horse on the bit. __________________ ,.:+`The OnLy Place Where YoUr DreAms BecOme ImpoSsIble,Is In YoUr Own ThinKing`+:., Last edited by Just_me; 09-17-2006 at 02:12 PM.

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09-17-2006, 02:06 PM	#3
kbreitfeld Full Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 86	Yes, her saddle fits, we had a saddle fitter out. The bit i ride her in, i cant find a picture of it, its like a basic loose ring snaffle, with a small ring on the top to attach to the bridle,and a larger ring on the bottom for the reins. Her teeth have recently been floated. edit: I found a picture of the bit we use. http://www.frogpool.com/prod-238.jpg I have a tendency to tense up when i ride and get frusterated, which makes it even worse. Today we worked on alot of turns on the forehand, bending, circles. This mare hasnt been worked much this summer due to her founder/cushings, so that somewhat contributes to her stubborness. She had alittle bucking fit for 2 days a couple weeks ago (bucked someone off, the next day i lunged her and was going to...but her back was REALLY sore...bucking bronco...she was going into a raging heat)) So recently i've been lunging her before i ride her, even though she is back to her quiet self again. It seems to help, and even though i feel like it's "cheating" my trainer said it will be ok to warm her up on the lunge for 10 min (with side reins), so i can get her on the bit better, and get a good feeling for what she SHOULD feel like, without killing myself (which happened today) Thanks!

09-17-2006, 02:11 PM	#4
Cavalier Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 3,698 Images: 236 Blog Entries: 18	First of all, you are NOT alone, and second of all, dressage at any level is NOT easy!!! I have found dressage to be the hardest, most time consuming, patience testing, mentally draining discipline of all, but the reward and satisfaction of finally getting certain movements or paces right is just amazing! Stick with it...it WILL come together at some point...no, I can't give you a time frame, but if you continue to work at it with a GOOD dressage coach, you will get there. I honestly think training and 1st level are HARD! Yes the tests and work is very basic, but I believe the basics are the hardest. You have to train to have the horse forward, relaxed and supple, moving with impulsion, straight and balanced, bending and flexing, regular and rhythmic, round and properly working on the bit, nice, clean transitions, responsive and obedient horse AND you have to ride an accurate test with a nice position all the while RIDING the horse (not just sitting there) in a positive influential manner. THAT IS NOT EASY!!! At least when you start getting to 2nd level, ALL of that is establish...yes, you have to learn collection and lateral movements etc, but I believe most of the hard work is out of the way because you have a solid foundation at that point. When I first got my horse it took him over a year to canter properly! I'm talking a WORKING canter...nothing fancy. Horses are individual and they struggle with different movements and/or paces, whether it be comformation, mentally or physically struggling etc...they all have their weakness's...and you know what? So do we! The best way to improve is to 1. Be AWARE of your own faults and try and remind yourself of them regularly throughout the ride so that you can regularly correct them. 2. Get regular lessons if you can...once a week would be great. 3. Play around with different ideas. To me, it sounds like you are aware of your faults, and the faults you have listed would most definitely be affecting the horse, it could very well be the reason why she doesn't like to come round. Having your hands in your lap would be robbing her of contact that she needs to properly work on the bit. You also need to have your legs on the horse at all times, even if you aren't using them...they need to be sitting there ready for use, whenever you need them. Play around with different exercises, especially in the walk, eg, lots of bending and flexing and counter bending and flexing to get her nice and supple, long and low work. When you have it going well in walk, try it in trot. Good luck with it all...you will be fine! Just be patient and remember that Rome wasn't built in a day

09-17-2006, 05:22 PM	#5
Cavalier Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 3,698 Images: 236 Blog Entries: 18	Ok...I just saw your edited post of the bit you are using. Why isn't she in a snaffle? That bit is a Universal (type of gag) so it is a harsh bit. The small ring up the top adds extra pressure to the poll and the bottom ring gives you more leverage. Technically, you SHOULD be able to have this horse head down in this bit. Most likely not 'properly' on the bit, but certainly with her head forced down from added pressure. Though this is NOT what you want. Is there a good reason why she is in this bit and not in a regular loose ring snaffle?

09-17-2006, 06:43 PM	#6
ches Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,472 Images: 38	Sometimes you just don't click with a particular horse. I leased an Arab pony when I was 13 who competed at Elementary level (2nd level) and I couldn't get her on the bit once in a whole year! I thought it was me and went back to jumping, but then a very experienced, competent rider hopped on her one day and he couldn't get her on the bit either. She was just a very particular little mare. I had no trouble with the completely green TB I got when I turned 14 and managed to train her to go on the bit and do simple bending just fine. I just didn't click with the mare in the least.