[jedy]

Just to say I wish some of you guys where instructing in our PC branch. I just had my cousin's cob for few weeks, who was riding in PC for past 3 years. In 3 ring gag (dutch/pessoa/continental)- which was on advise of PC insructor. Well, when I sat on him, any use of rein at all would send him behind the bit as a`matter of habit. And he had absolutely no seat steering. When I took that thing off him and put french link snaffle he could start education. 3 years of various activities and the horse was just green, and without any engagement.


Very educational thread, thank you.

[rizzodm]

Thankyou all for your responses!

Dawn

[pippy]

Originally Posted by jedy

Just to say I wish some of you guys where instructing in our PC branch. I just had my cousin's cob for few weeks, who was riding in PC for past 3 years. In 3 ring gag (dutch/pessoa/continental)- which was on advise of PC insructor. Well, when I sat on him, any use of rein at all would send him behind the bit as a`matter of habit. And he had absolutely no seat steering. When I took that thing off him and put french link snaffle he could start education. 3 years of various activities and the horse was just green, and without any engagement.


Very educational thread, thank you.

I'm not sure if its the same for you guys - but not every PC coach is that well... knowledgable.
As much as I hate to say this about someone at my club - I didn't want to use her as instructor and I've been proven right... my club don't pay us - so we all are volunteers, and often the case with volunteers - they are out for self gain - as this girl is, and she is not having the best interests in teh horse and rider at heart, and as a first most thought when she coachs - she is trying to gain "clients" for herself, and to do that she is teaching well above the level of the kids she teaches - on top of that - she isn't teaching it correctly - sorry - but pre-D should not be learning shoulder in (fullstop) they can't leg yeild, ride tot he outside rein, let alone balance themselves at times nor do they understand a half halt - they have no business IMO doing it. BUt because they are doing "cool tricks" the kids think this girl is brillant - pity I've had to put up with the complaints from the parents who know enough, the others are getting paid lessons with her
So given that - and the fact - that at PC we only have time to fix very little. i.e I get at least a group of 5 every rally - 2 hours to work with 5 riders in 4 different discplines (dressage, SJ, xc, games) leaves me little time to nit pick - and again - often the case - to solve a problem for a child who doesn't get outside lessons as I see - the coach tells the rider to put such and such a bit on so they can stop - PC has become very PC - so the horse has to be able to be stopped - and thats how you end up with horses like you described.
It really is a hard one at PC to help riders who clearly need it, you still have others who maybe are better off - but you are still obligated to give them something as well - but limited resource and time often means part of the message gets lost. I so often end up giving lessons outside of PC to those riders for free because I just feel I can't do them justice in PC with so many riders to coach at once.

[jedy]

I can def see your point. But to give a child a false sense of achievement, having them jumping 150 cm and cross country, and yet they can't ride through course of 60 cm at home, because they think flat work is basicly boring...not ...embracing the feel of suppleness and...not showing what flatwork IS about- that's just cheating! That's something that you, for instance, wouldn't do, no matter how liitle time you had
(can you sense the bitterness of good horse wasted and keen rider getting bored?)

[PiaffePony0412]

When there is a problem, you need to question a lot of things before coming up with a solution. Especially one as drastic as a switch from snaffle to double bridle on a pony who is having contact issues. Why do you think your pony is doing this? What does your trainer think? Don't just assuming he is ignoring the bit and needs a stronger one.
How is the pony on a lunge with side reins? Does he hang on them? Or does he respect the consistency and move into the contact?

Do you ride with contact? Do you ride with a loose rein? When you pull back, does he pull harder? Or does he just hold it in his mouth while not giving?

Is this a NEW habit? If not, when did he start this?

I personally believe that in any of these cases, if you escalate to a stronger bit without FIXING the CORE issue, your horse is most likely going to rise to the occasion and you will have the same problem all over again but worse. And if you push it too far, especially with the use of a double bridle, you could wind up with some seriously irreversible damage.

Horses are reactive. So you have to be PROactive.

I'm assuming also that you have already checked saddle fit/bit fit/teeth and all the obvious health issues, but I personally would stick with the snaffle and figure out what is going on. Maybe you need to confront it with some ground work or particular exercises to focus him on respecting the contact. Just putting a stronger bit in his mouth would definitely be a quick fix, but if everything stays constant while it is the only variable, the fix will most likely not be a lasting one.

-Piaffepony0412