[Taihoa]

Originally Posted by pippy

And what makes you think a pelham is for naughty horses?

Just because its used on them doesn't make that so. Its normally used because you can put roundings on them - and then that good ol' uneducated hand can still ride in it - not normal to put roundings on a double bridle so those who can't ride with 2 reins have to go to the pelham - which FYI wasn't built originally to be used with one rein but 2.

I don't think a pelham is for 'naughty' horses, I was just saying that a double bridle is designed to be used on well trained horses with capable riders. The action of a double bridle can be far more severe than a pelham.

[rizzodm]

Originally Posted by Taihoa

I'd be inclined to ride in a pelham with two reins before I went into a double bridle. Double bridles are for use on well schooled horses - not naughty ones.
My horse is insanely strong and very hard to stop but I've just had a lesson yesterday that totally changed all that - MAGIC INSTRUCTOR!!
Can send you a copy of his notes when he sends them through to me if you like??

Yes, I would love notes!
She normally goes in a french link snaffle. She has had so many kids on her that she has just learned to ignore the little buggers and do what she wants. My trainer refers to her as the plow pony. I would just love to work with her in the snaffle as opposed to the double.

Dawn

[pippy]

Originally Posted by Taihoa

I don't think a pelham is for 'naughty' horses, I was just saying that a double bridle is designed to be used on well trained horses with capable riders. The action of a double bridle can be far more severe than a pelham.

Sorry - may have come across a bit brash.

But I believe that those who use a pelham - should give it the same respect as a double bridle, if not more because its more common in use - its much the same bit in terms of curb/snaffle rein - and I hate people who "tout" to me that the pelham is for naughty ponies especially given I head instruct at PC and hear it all the time from parents....

p.s nice to see another kiwi

[Taihoa]

I instruct at PC too and get annoyed with all the over bitted ponies - initally for the childs safety fine, but not long term.
I have no issues with Pelhams and have used them myself when needed. Definately agree that people need to learn to use and respect them!! The only reason I suggested a Pelham over a Double Bridle is that if you aren't co-ordinated/skilled/have the knowledge of what I does you can ALOT of damage - unfortunatley I have witnessed this on far too many occasions in the show ring

[farmeress]

If I needed to have "bit" strength for a runaway horse....and my choice of bit were pelham or double bridle to assist with this training issue....

I would choose the double bridle....no matter what rein you activate on the pelham....the chain will employ on the curb.

The double gives you subtlese (sp) that the pelham does not and allows for better weight control on the aids.

That said...I have been classically trained on the double bridle at FEI levels and would never advocate this bridle to a novice in the art of riding with two bits.

There are several bits out there for horses that run through the bit...what discipline are you?

If you say Dressage...please...please...please tell me your instructor has given you a detailed theory lesson on the mechanics of this bridle and the proper execution of aids for each one while being supported by the core/seat/back before leaving you on your own.

[rizzodm]

Originally Posted by farmeress

If I needed to have "bit" strength for a runaway horse....and my choice of bit were pelham or double bridle to assist with this training issue....

I would choose the double bridle....no matter what rein you activate on the pelham....the chain will employ on the curb.

The double gives you subtlese (sp) that the pelham does not and allows for better weight control on the aids.

That said...I have been classically trained on the double bridle at FEI levels and would never advocate this bridle to a novice in the art of riding with two bits.

There are several bits out there for horses that run through the bit...what discipline are you?

If you say Dressage...please...please...please tell me your instructor has given you a detailed theory lesson on the mechanics of this bridle and the proper execution of aids for each one while being supported by the core/seat/back before leaving you on your own.

Oh, I wish I could say that she did. The next day I begin to educate myself through literature on the double bridle which did intimidate me (why I went back to the snaffle). I ride very indepently through my seat so I know she trust me to not damage the pony's mouth but I went back to snaffle becuase I was just not comfortable riding with a double with out my trainer there watching me.

Dawn

[farmeress]

Originally Posted by rizzodm

Oh, I wish I could say that she did. The next day I begin to educate myself through literature on the double bridle which did intimidate me (why I went back to the snaffle). I ride very indepently through my seat so I know she trust me to not damage the pony's mouth but I went back to snaffle becuase I was just not comfortable riding with a double with out my trainer there watching me.

Dawn

Good decision...never riding in a bridle/tack you are never sure of is the best way to avoid "incidents"

There are several types of snaffles out there...without having to resort to twists/razor edge/wire.....the use of weight is another factor many people overlook.

If you have a hollow snaffle...try a heavier one...if it is a solid one...try a thinner/thicker one....if he is not going to listen to a snaffle...then I do suggest you try another until he understands WHOA...and then back track on the strength of the bit while continuing to have him listen to the body aids.

Truly...some hard mouthed horses I get...have been soooooo toughened in the mouth...I simply find it easier to re-train them off the back/seat/core so the mouth is barely used.....as time goes on....the bit comes into play with the body...and the horse has forgotten...he used to run through the bit...since he has not done it in awhile as I had removed the temptation in the re-training process

[SaddleUp158]

My response is only concerning the use of the dbl bridle and the pelham.

I would use the dbl bridle way before using the pelham because you can completely leave the leverage action alone if needed and only use the snaffle. If you are using this as a training aid, I would still use the dble bridle for the same reason. With the pelham there is no actual snaffle action.

[allison finch]

Originally Posted by Taihoa

I don't think a pelham is for 'naughty' horses, I was just saying that a double bridle is designed to be used on well trained horses with capable riders. The action of a double bridle can be far more severe than a pelham.

Agree. A double bridle is something the horse is trained a long time for. Riders as well. In the right hands, it gives the ultimate in communication. In the wrong hands it can be terribly destructive. NO to a beginning rider in a double. Better a kimberwick, that gives control with minimum leverage to damage the horse.

All of this would be moot if the pony would just get some reschooling, IMO.

[Capilet]

It sounds like you have made the best choice in going with the snaffle for now.

I would speak to your trainer about being uncomfortable riding in the double bridle--and don't be embarrassed, I would be uncomfortable too and have been riding for twenty years plus. I would agree with the suggestion of a dutch gag (elevator) with both a snaffle and gag rein for this pony if he/she is what I'm thinking.