[TimmysMom]

Tim's doing so well in a year, that we've nailed roll-backs, even some simple dressage moves. But, when I ask him to stop (at trot or lope) he just locks his legs and I pray I don't bounch out of the saddle.

I have tried:
Sigh, using seat, and setting him up before asking for a whoa.
Running him full speed at the arena fence
Backing up until I'm dizzy - all I get is a really nice poll break!

I've ruled out back and spinal problems, leg deformities (my farrier is a Roping Champion and says Timmy can do anything conformation-wise.)

I'm riding him back in his bosal, but even when I had him in a snaffle or short-shank snaflle, he did the same thing.

How can I get his butt under him?

[John]

Do you have plates on him?

[Gutter_Doll]

How's his back up? If he can't back up round, he sure won't stop round.

[McLean86]

lots of doubling near the fence. stop, back, and turn, gradually increasing the speed. use the signal set in this order: sit, say whoa, pull on the reins, release the reins as soon as he stops,

Doubling into the fence accomplishes a few things at once, it stops his forward motion and gets him used to hearing whoa.
he learns to use his loins and it puts his hindquarters under him.
he drives hock underneath him in sync with the rein that is being pulled to act as teh pivot point for the turn.
it keeps his front end flexible, instead of jamming into the ground.

your plan is to trick your horse into bringing both hocks underneath him after a few days of doubling work.
trot with the fence on your right, sit down and say whoa, he will anticipate a turn to the right into the fence and will drive his right hock underneath him, Pull the left rein harder than the right making him drive the left hock underneath. If he does it well, reward and praise.
If you aren't getting any improvement from this he needs more backing, stopping and turning.

[spinandslide]

Originally Posted by McLean86

lots of doubling near the fence. stop, back, and turn, gradually increasing the speed. use the signal set in this order: sit, say whoa, pull on the reins, release the reins as soon as he stops,

Doubling into the fence accomplishes a few things at once, it stops his forward motion and gets him used to hearing whoa.
he learns to use his loins and it puts his hindquarters under him.
he drives hock underneath him in sync with the rein that is being pulled to act as teh pivot point for the turn.
it keeps his front end flexible, instead of jamming into the ground.

your plan is to trick your horse into bringing both hocks underneath him after a few days of doubling work.
trot with the fence on your right, sit down and say whoa, he will anticipate a turn to the right into the fence and will drive his right hock underneath him, Pull the left rein harder than the right making him drive the left hock underneath. If he does it well, reward and praise.
If you aren't getting any improvement from this he needs more backing, stopping and turning.

Very good post..I agree. I will also ask John;s question about plates..and add on what footing you are trying to acheive the stop in?

[TimmysMom]

Originally Posted by John

Do you have plates on him?

No, he's barefoot.

[TimmysMom]

Originally Posted by Gutter_Doll

How's his back up? If he can't back up round, he sure won't stop round.

He backs nicely on voice, and when I use my legs, hauls butt backwards - but I cannot tell if his fanny is under him - should I just look? Would it be lower than his topline?

[TimmysMom]

Originally Posted by McLean86

lots of doubling near the fence. stop, back, and turn, gradually increasing the speed. use the signal set in this order: sit, say whoa, pull on the reins, release the reins as soon as he stops,

Since I'm old, I don't know what all these new fangled words are! What's doubling? It sounds like the work I've already done with him, but away from the fence. He stops on a dime when I say whoa, but jams into the ground.

Doubling into the fence accomplishes a few things at once, it stops his forward motion and gets him used to hearing whoa.
he learns to use his loins and it puts his hindquarters under him.
he drives hock underneath him in sync with the rein that is being pulled to act as teh pivot point for the turn.
it keeps his front end flexible, instead of jamming into the ground. So you're saying work him towards the fence? I do that occasionally, just so he stops anticipating a roll back at a trot or lope.

your plan is to trick your horse into bringing both hocks underneath him after a few days of doubling work.
trot with the fence on your right, sit down and say whoa, he will anticipate a turn to the right into the fence and will drive his right hock underneath him, Pull the left rein harder than the right making him drive the left hock underneath. If he does it well, reward and praise.
If you aren't getting any improvement from this he needs more backing, stopping and turning.

Thanks for the information - I'll do this and see how it goes - I do stop, back and turn him in the other direction everytime I warm him up, but I always turn away from the fence - so I'll turn him now into the fence. he will actually back in a circle all around the arena.

[TimmysMom]

Originally Posted by spinandslide

Very good post..I agree. I will also ask John;s question about plates..and add on what footing you are trying to acheive the stop in?

I'm so embarassed to say - it's like concrete because my boss won't let me use the tractor to till it - he thinks grading it is enough. So the ground is very hard in places, soft in others. I'm really trying to use the soft areas, but you'll love this - the arena SLOPES! So, until I can get him back into a round pen with good footing, I'm not going to be hauling butt into the fence! I'll just do the slower work to get him used to the drill.

[TimmysMom]

One more question: Should I put him back into his O-ring snaffle instead of the bosal? I rode him in a halter for weeks after I spent 90 days in the round pen, and he did really well, which is why I went to a bosal.

But now, he's not as soft anymore.