How do I get Timmy to round his back for sliding stop?

Theorist · 10-16-2009, 06:36 PM

I haven't read the entire thread, but , yes, plates would help.
One thing to to bosal or snaffle os get him to round at the walk, jog and lope. Be able to pick him up with the lightest touch. Squeeze up into the bridle using leg and rein while he gives and is supple... A stop is sort of a progression from that... Really you have to get the horse into the bridle (sort of) with leg and seat and hand and release them into the ground... He has to be round before you ask for the stop and you ought not have to pull much on his face... it should be lift, sit, slide... makes sense to me... hard for me to eplain tho

TimmysMom · 10-16-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IIIBarsV

So... are you trying to get a softer "normal" stop, or a *sliding* stop?

To get a softer normal stop, Timmy's gotta be backed off his forehand and slowed down. Downward transitions are the key to this one, as well as "hot" forward transitions, especially walk-canter.

Downward transitions should be canter-jog, and jog-walk. He needs to build the balance and learn to stay off your hands, and keeping him shifting down while still moving forward has a big advantage than just slamming on the brakes.

When doing upward transitions, he should be pretty "hot off your legs"... you shouldn't have to boot him for ten minutes to get him moving. lol. I've found that riding with a dressage whip to create more energy and "yes mam!" response it highly beneficial.... especially if you're creating a slow, highly-collected jog or canter.

And, as always.... spend a while every ride practicing "whoa" with as little rein as possible, at a walk and jog. If he doesn't stop squarely or tries to keep walking through the whoa, then use your back-up.

Another question: How good is his back up? What cue system do you use for it?

A softer, normal stop. Today I was practicing his stop using reins, which someone else suggested, but I usually just whisper "whoa" and the legs get planted! But, I did pay really close attention in my downward transition from trot-walk to stop, by exhaling, using my seat and just lifting the rein ever-so-slightly, and asking for whoa. I let him walk a step or two, rather than my usual demand of stopping on a dime - which is how I messed him up in the first place ! LOL In about three tries, as soon as I exhaled, he began to stop - softly!!!! No rein, no request - he just felt it.

HOT upward transitions are NO PROBLEM! He only needs a tap now and then with the bosal lead to wake him up. Then I have his full undivided attention! Today went really well, in that, I was teaching both me and him how to ride into the bridle with propulsion for a really nice collected jog - it was awesome! After about 10-20 minutes, he wouldn't speed up when I asked him to jog, but just started moving his feet and stayed collected - what a great day! So I learned how to drive him into the bit (bosal) and collect his jog and lope.
And, we did all of it in his bosal - he really seems to like it over everything else I've tried on him.

Now, about his "back" - because I was teaching him rollbacks a few weeks ago, when I walk him along the rail, ask for a stop, and then a back, he anticpates the rollback, so his head turns before I can get a straight back up - so today I did none - just stop, and back up. I ask him to back after a stop, by dropping both hands low, sit back a tad, and say "back" with a kissy sound. I hold him until he moves, then release. After a few straight ones, even just a few steps, I let him off the hook and we went on a short trail ride.

Does that sound like I'm getting things better? I sure hope so - I love him to pieces and would never forgive myself for sending him too much information and messing him up - though he'll probably just be my "forever" trail horse! I still like them to know the right way to do things.

TimmysMom · 10-16-2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theorist

I haven't read the entire thread, but , yes, plates would help.
One thing to to bosal or snaffle os get him to round at the walk, jog and lope. Be able to pick him up with the lightest touch. Squeeze up into the bridle using leg and rein while he gives and is supple... A stop is sort of a progression from that... Really you have to get the horse into the bridle (sort of) with leg and seat and hand and release them into the ground... He has to be round before you ask for the stop and you ought not have to pull much on his face... it should be lift, sit, slide... makes sense to me... hard for me to eplain tho

I misspoke - I only want a soft stop - I said "sliding" but that wasn't accurate.

But everything else you said I actually did today and the results were amazing! See, I'm from the "old days" when to collect a horse, you left them bitted up for hours. I learned today to drive him into the bosal and got a pretty little jog. Then we transitioned downward after I just exhaled and used my seat, and a light pick-up on the reins - no contact at all, actually.

T'was a good day!

You did a great job of explaining! I can usually picture waht people mean, better than just reading it. Thank you so much!

Theorist · 10-17-2009, 06:11 PM

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And thanks!

hjackma51982 · 10-17-2009, 06:29 PM

Slighty random question.... You have mentioned that the moment he hears you say the word "whoa" he istantly stops dead... right?

What happens if you take the vocal cue out of the equation?

I have ridden a few horses for whom the word whoa was an e brake.

TimmysMom · 10-18-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hjackma51982

Slighty random question.... You have mentioned that the moment he hears you say the word "whoa" he istantly stops dead... right?

What happens if you take the vocal cue out of the equation?

I have ridden a few horses for whom the word whoa was an e brake.

Not random at all! That's exactly what he does! I did practice this weekend (at an event I took him to just to expose him to stuff) - I picked up his reins at a walk, after exhaling and sitting deeper in the saddle. I only made contact with his mouth and he stopped. But then, because I had been backing him up after the stops, he was fidgety - never done that before.

1ststringfarms · 10-18-2009, 05:55 PM

When our reiners start stopping on their front ends we don't back them. We IMMEDIATELY push them forward into a trot from the stop. This method has always been successful for us.

TimmysMom · 10-18-2009, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ststringfarms

When our reiners start stopping on their front ends we don't back them. We IMMEDIATELY push them forward into a trot from the stop. This method has always been successful for us.

So what you mean is, when I stop him and he slams on the brakes, I should push him right into a trot? How does this not get him to break through the stop?

Gutter_Doll · 10-18-2009, 08:04 PM

It helps by keeping the front legs moving.
If the issue is his front legs are jutting into the ground, thats corrected by pushing it forward. Thats why reiners "paddle" with their front feet in the stops.

TimmysMom · 10-18-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gutter_Doll

It helps by keeping the front legs moving.
If the issue is his front legs are jutting into the ground, thats corrected by pushing it forward. Thats why reiners "paddle" with their front feet in the stops.

Oh, so that's how they do that! I was wondering how they "walked" in the front and just slid in the back.

Can you give me a step-by-step, if you have time? Also, were you okay during the horrible fires there?

10-16-2009, 06:36 PM	#41
Theorist Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: South of the north pole Posts: 484	I haven't read the entire thread, but , yes, plates would help. One thing to to bosal or snaffle os get him to round at the walk, jog and lope. Be able to pick him up with the lightest touch. Squeeze up into the bridle using leg and rein while he gives and is supple... A stop is sort of a progression from that... Really you have to get the horse into the bridle (sort of) with leg and seat and hand and release them into the ground... He has to be round before you ask for the stop and you ought not have to pull much on his face... it should be lift, sit, slide... makes sense to me... hard for me to eplain tho __________________ I too run like a girl! Rachel is a SUPER FREAK!

10-17-2009, 06:11 PM	#44
Theorist Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: South of the north pole Posts: 484	YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And thanks! __________________ I too run like a girl! Rachel is a SUPER FREAK!

10-17-2009, 06:29 PM	#45
hjackma51982 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Oregon Posts: 423	Slighty random question.... You have mentioned that the moment he hears you say the word "whoa" he istantly stops dead... right? What happens if you take the vocal cue out of the equation? I have ridden a few horses for whom the word whoa was an e brake. __________________ OF COURSE an apple doesn't have a correct orange peel...but they do still have a peel

10-18-2009, 08:04 PM	#49
Gutter_Doll Senior Member+ Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Central West, Australia. Posts: 1,431 Images: 36	It helps by keeping the front legs moving. If the issue is his front legs are jutting into the ground, thats corrected by pushing it forward. Thats why reiners "paddle" with their front feet in the stops. __________________ photography new site. "Orana Quest" - tricks (bow, lay down, kneel, smile, sit, count, pick up a saddle pad) and in reining training.

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10-18-2009, 05:55 PM	#47
1ststringfarms Full Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 71 Images: 1	When our reiners start stopping on their front ends we don't back them. We IMMEDIATELY push them forward into a trot from the stop. This method has always been successful for us.