[jspeer1208]

Originally Posted by shyxpony

Well I don't have any suggestions that haven't already been said, but that is a GORGEOUS mane! The horse is very cute!

Thanks! Long manes are very high maintenance, especially with him!

[Rhythmic Hooves]

Oh no no no! You misunderstood me. I didn't mean that you should teach them to spook in place, I actually meant nearly the complete other way around... no not that either. What I meant was that you can't possibly desenstize your horse to the world and that I would rather ride a horse who thought before he acted wheather his reaction was keep walking or turn and run. Plus I would also rather not ride a horse who was death to everything because there are things on trails and in the pasture that will hurt the horse. What I meant was that if you simply ask your horse to ignore everything he won't be able to see harmful or dangerous stuff.
Okay, I may be on a loosing battle here because I can't seem to get this out the way I am actually thinking it.
Basically, I love/loved my horse Smokey because it wasn't that he didn't get scared sometimes but he was forever using his brain before he acted.... he thought on his feet like a great spy (or something lol). I always had the final say in what we did but I also knew that given the choice he would make a good one, not only looking out for himself but considering my well being also. You may think I am giving more feelings to him than a horse has but I actually credit this to herd nature, I was his girl and he let no one forget it and nothing harm me.
Of course, he was 20 ish and the king (very fitting considering his bloodlines lol) but still I guess what I am saying is try to find a happy medium and don't just ask your horse to let you do the thinking because horses have better senses and see more sometimes... after all that's why they sometimes spook when we see nothing. And if someday you get in a pickle and see no way out won't you feel good knowing that you can drop the reins, hold on and know your horse will do his very best to get you both back to a safe place. I know I was SOOO thankful serveral times that it was Smokey I was riding because I had managed to get us in a tight spot.
And you are probably thinking that it was because he was so old and lived through alot of stuff... yeah it probably was to a certain extent but I also think that it had to do with the fact that he was a cowhorse to the bone. When a cowboy is chasing a crazy cow through thick brush on uneven and rough footing at a gallop with a rope in hand you can bet your bottom dollar that the horse is doing alot of thinking for himself. I was raving the other day how I love to watch a good cow horse work because they can gallop after a cow (watching the cow and tracking them) plus watch for wire, holes, snakes, trees, logs, and a good one will keep the rider out of the trees too. That's how I like my horses. The kind that can think at a gallop.

But like I said, I am sure I sound crazy because I cannot seem to make my thoughts come out in order and make sense (and now you see why sometimes I let the horse do the thinking ). You know what... go ahead and laugh... everyone has to have one good quality and mine is the fact that people get to laugh when I start talking about thinks I love .

[John]

Work on the trust issue first. He has to look to you to save him from all those nasty things.

[JBandRio]

What is his diet? Too often people mistake a horse's "hotness" for "oh, it's just the way he is", without realizing the diet is playing a large role in his behavior.

[jspeer1208]

Originally Posted by Rhythmic Hooves

Oh no no no! You misunderstood me. I didn't mean that you should teach them to spook in place, I actually meant nearly the complete other way around... no not that either. What I meant was that you can't possibly desenstize your horse to the world and that I would rather ride a horse who thought before he acted wheather his reaction was keep walking or turn and run. Plus I would also rather not ride a horse who was death to everything because there are things on trails and in the pasture that will hurt the horse. What I meant was that if you simply ask your horse to ignore everything he won't be able to see harmful or dangerous stuff.
Okay, I may be on a loosing battle here because I can't seem to get this out the way I am actually thinking it.
Basically, I love/loved my horse Smokey because it wasn't that he didn't get scared sometimes but he was forever using his brain before he acted.... he thought on his feet like a great spy (or something lol). I always had the final say in what we did but I also knew that given the choice he would make a good one, not only looking out for himself but considering my well being also. You may think I am giving more feelings to him than a horse has but I actually credit this to herd nature, I was his girl and he let no one forget it and nothing harm me.
Of course, he was 20 ish and the king (very fitting considering his bloodlines lol) but still I guess what I am saying is try to find a happy medium and don't just ask your horse to let you do the thinking because horses have better senses and see more sometimes... after all that's why they sometimes spook when we see nothing. And if someday you get in a pickle and see no way out won't you feel good knowing that you can drop the reins, hold on and know your horse will do his very best to get you both back to a safe place. I know I was SOOO thankful serveral times that it was Smokey I was riding because I had managed to get us in a tight spot.
And you are probably thinking that it was because he was so old and lived through alot of stuff... yeah it probably was to a certain extent but I also think that it had to do with the fact that he was a cowhorse to the bone. When a cowboy is chasing a crazy cow through thick brush on uneven and rough footing at a gallop with a rope in hand you can bet your bottom dollar that the horse is doing alot of thinking for himself. I was raving the other day how I love to watch a good cow horse work because they can gallop after a cow (watching the cow and tracking them) plus watch for wire, holes, snakes, trees, logs, and a good one will keep the rider out of the trees too. That's how I like my horses. The kind that can think at a gallop.

But like I said, I am sure I sound crazy because I cannot seem to make my thoughts come out in order and make sense (and now you see why sometimes I let the horse do the thinking ). You know what... go ahead and laugh... everyone has to have one good quality and mine is the fact that people get to laugh when I start talking about thinks I love .

I think I understand where you're coming from...do you know what issue and what magazine you got that article from? I might have it, b/c it does sound a little familiar. I might search for it myself I like to keep an open mind to everything...gives me more perspective!

[jspeer1208]

Originally Posted by John

Work on the trust issue first. He has to look to you to save him from all those nasty things.

Yeah, I'm working on that. He really is getting better. But still has a long way to come!

[jspeer1208]

Originally Posted by JBandRio

What is his diet? Too often people mistake a horse's "hotness" for "oh, it's just the way he is", without realizing the diet is playing a large role in his behavior.

He gets Equine Advantage 14%. He really isn't a high-energy horse, he is just insecure about everything. I could longe him until he is tired and he'd still react to stuff.

[JBandRio]

I don't know what Equine Advantage is - who makes it? How much is he getting? What about hay/grass?

Diet issues aren't necessarily about too much energy - they can be about the wrong kind of energy. A Vitamin b-1 deficiency can easily cause a horse to be over-reactive to sights and sounds. A magnesium deficiency can cause tense muscles so the horse is never able to really relax.

[Bruce Wiley]

There is an order.
You must have these parts in place for the desensitization to be able to take hold in the horse's mind.

Its like building the proper foundation, before considering anything else. Before you can build a house, you must create the proper foundation, making the ground even, then laying the concrete etc.
What happens sometimes, we humans see the horse's reaction as the horse need desensitizing and people either forgot, or never establish control, respect, setting up their role as the leader.

Again, there is an order & everything has it own order and the horse haven't discover you as it's leader.
The focus should be on doing the correct things first, which should cause your work to become more effective when thinking about teaching & gaining the horse's trust.
Trust is the very last thing the horse submit to us.

You must gain & retain total control & the horse's respect.
The horse must submit, selecting you as the one.
After gaining those parts, then that would be the time to consider the method of desensitization & if done correctly the horse she, or he will listen and already know how to handle those scary moments, because of the proper training.
I hope this helps.

[jspeer1208]

Originally Posted by JBandRio

I don't know what Equine Advantage is - who makes it? How much is he getting? What about hay/grass?

Diet issues aren't necessarily about too much energy - they can be about the wrong kind of energy. A Vitamin b-1 deficiency can easily cause a horse to be over-reactive to sights and sounds. A magnesium deficiency can cause tense muscles so the horse is never able to really relax.

It's a feed sold by the CO-OP, not sure if you have one of those where you live. I think it's similar to Purina's Strategy, at least that's what I've been told. I don't know much about the different feeds. Both of my horses get a half a scoop twice daily, and grass hay twice a day, plus they are turned out all day on pasture. I also provide each of them with a mineral block in their stall.

14% Equine Advantage (#321)

Lower-carbohydrate, higher-energy pelleted diet designed to deliver the precise nutrient demands of top-performing equine athletes. Recommended for horses fed primarily grass
forage programs.
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (min.).......................... 14.00%

Crude Fat (min.)...................................6.00%
Crude Fiber (max.).............................. 8.00%
Calcium (min.)........0.70% (max.)....... 1.20%
Phosphorus (min.)................................ 0.60%
Copper (min.)..................................... 60 ppm
Selenium (min.).............................. 0.60 ppm
Zinc (min.)....................................... 200 ppm
Vitamin A (min.)......................... .4,250 IU/lb.
Vitamin D (min.)............................ 600 IU/lb.
Vitamin E (min.).............................. 88 IU/lb.

Now that I think about it, that very well could be why he acts the way he does(partially). My yearling filly is always on edge as well. Would you recommend I give them an additional b-1 vitamin/magnesium supplement? Actually, I will just have a vet check it out. I'm sure he can tell me all the deficiencies, if any. It's definitely worth not ignoring...It might cut my problem in half!