[AnnaBelle02]

I have a six month old foal and trying to come up with techniques to use on this fellow are becoming exceedingly difficult - he is SO calm and confident almost nothing works with him.
The problem I'm running into is his attitude in the pasture. He is great in hand but when lose (as babies tend to be) he is cheeky and bold (on occasion). I've tried some John Lyons techniques with him to "move his feet" and "control his direction" - to assume the lead horse role, but the methods John uses don't work on my foal. Tapping him high on the flank with a whip WILL NOT make him move (and I've tried tapping harder, but still nothing), clapping my hands, suffeling my feet etc. does absoluely nothing.
He does understand the comands Woah, Back, and Cluck (meaning come to me or follow me) so I use those on him to keep him in his own space or listening to me. But when he doesn't listen to those, I find him a lot like a five year old child - a total know it all bent on proving it to you. When he wants to be too close to me or doesn't like the fact I'm trying to move him he will turn his butt to me. So because I can't get him to move (claping won't work and so on) I've taken to doing the next natural thing that came into my head:
I turn my back/butt to him and say "No" sternly (not yelling) and I've even gone so far as to take a few quick steps backward then in his direction (the way a lead horse would to prove a point). This makes him immediately move away from me - but then he will try to come back to me, as if he wants to appologize. At this point I keep backing towards him and only allow him to stop moving on my command (Woah) and then I turn and ask him to approach me (Cluck).

Now I usually don't agree with "acting" like a horse or allowing horse type behaviours directed at me but this is working - I just want to know if you think it is too dangerous to act like a horse and could it result in him responding back to me with a kick or any other dangerous behaviour?

Any input or tips would be appreciated

[John]

Just dont let him put a saddle on you!!!

[AnnaBelle02]

HAHA - I love it John!!

[John]

Actualy when they are in the "brat " stage they do like to practice gaining a spot in life. Dont let it become a game.

[CanadianWrangler]

A large round of applause from me!!!

I find no better way to communicate to a horse than in a way a horse would. They understand it!

As long as you are consistent, persistent and assertive of your position as alpha he shouldn't be too inclined to test you.
If you are worried about him "trying" you, just keep an eye on his ears when doing this type of 'talking'. They will tell you if he is listening his ear/s on you), paying attention to soemthing else (ear/s pointed elsewhere) , or if he is getting displeased or aggressive (ears pinned).

If he pins his ears at him don't be afraid to kick out at him (you don't have to connect, or even connect hard). Just making it clear he isn't to disobey.

[ridegrrl]

You're definitely on the right track. Be sure to follow through, when he becomes indignant and doesn't listen to your cues. He's already figured out that he doesn't need to worry about "empty threats" (ie. shuffling your feet or clapping at him).

A note of caution: While it is what another horse would do in the field, I would advise against you turning your back to him when he's feeling impetuous and ignoring you. Horses use this method for two reasons: 1) They can see behind them. Their eyes are placed to give them about 340 degrees vision, and with a slight turn of the head, they can fill in the gaps and see everything to the rear. You simply cannot. This leaves you vulnerable should he get a notion to take a swing at you. 2) Horses are set up to deliver a swift kick out the back. You're physically not suited to do this, and so you're far more effective facing him.

[CowGirlUp1833]

You know what, most people will probably disagree with me here... but if you are "tapping" him with the whip, or "tapping harder", with no response, it is not hurting him or probably even making him uncomfortable. Snap him in the rump with it! Do you think another horse would put up with it? No! Show him who is boss...it will only take once if you REALLY convey you mean it! I would rather smack my horse once and let her know I REALLY MEAN BUSINESS then to try and smack her around with no avail. It may even smart his little bum for a minute, but it won't actually harm him. Don't be afraid to stand up for yourself.

[Love2TrailRide]

I agree with CowGirlUp, make ur place and make it in the right spot. Dont let him become the dominant one, it will not hurt anymore then an older, more dominant horse kicks him if you get him on the butt with a whip. Try snapping it BEHIND him and see if the sound makes him go and then try getting his butt. Maybe he doesn't know that a whip is meant to get him to go, and so he thinks nothing of it. But putting him in HIS place, where he is SUPPOSE to be wont hurt anything. like John said, dont let him be the one putting the saddle on YOU.

[ridegrrl]

Originally Posted by CowGirlUp1833

You know what, most people will probably disagree with me here... but if you are "tapping" him with the whip, or "tapping harder", with no response, it is not hurting him or probably even making him uncomfortable. Snap him in the rump with it! Do you think another horse would put up with it? No! Show him who is boss...it will only take once if you REALLY convey you mean it! I would rather smack my horse once and let her know I REALLY MEAN BUSINESS then to try and smack her around with no avail. It may even smart his little bum for a minute, but it won't actually harm him. Don't be afraid to stand up for yourself.

I fully agree. That's exactly what I meant by "follow through." Well said, CowGirlUp.

[AnnaBelle02]

OH trust me he knows what the whip has the potential for (he kicked me when he was 2 weeks old and after that I carried a whip with me, one well positioned wack and he didn't try it again!) But to "wack" him with it while using a training technique wouldn't work - because I'm not trying to scare him or put him in his place, I'm simply just working with him. It would almost be like just out of the blue smacking your horse while you were grooming. All I"m tyring to get him to do is to move away from the tapping not to disipline him. Although having it in hand when he swings his butt to me would be a great thing - but I can't have it on me ALL the time.

The clapping and so on is just to get him moving (but as I said it doesn't) and I don't feel that getting close enough to his rear to wack him with my hand into moving isn't a very wise idea either..ha!