[kizmet]

I think what K was trying to say is that slaughter was not the only other option as was first stated. The op stated that she has a retirement field!

[Haas Horse Farm]

Then is she going to pay to have this horse hauled to her retirement field?

[kizmet]

Originally Posted by Haas Horse Farm

Then is she going to pay to have this horse hauled to her retirement field?

no not her retirement field cindys! And she was just asking, you dont need to jump all over her! For some that would have been a option. Here in scotland there are always people looking for field companions for there horse and would happily have taken it!

[doublebarr]

Originally Posted by kizmet

I think what K was trying to say is that slaughter was not the only other option as was first stated. The op stated that she has a retirement field!

Yes, I do. A retirement field for horses that have worked and earned their retirement here. Just like NO ONE would pay my retirement if I did not work for them. If you don't work for the company, THEY DON'T PAY YOU RETIREMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Same goes for a Ranch business. You don't work, you don't get benfits! Nobody will be paying ME retirement, and because I'm self employeed, my SS benes are almost nothing, I HAVE TO WORK AND EARN MY OWN RETIREMENT FUND MYSELF. Thus our "workers" (read as horses, stock dogs, etc.) must also do the same. I am not asking any more of them then I do of myself.

If I became a charity for every horse that was not wanted, I could not afford to care for ANY of them.

BECAUSE we actually have a REAL WORKING RANCH, that is our ONLY source of income, EVERYTHING MUST EARN IT'S KEEP AT SOME POINT!!! AND EVEN MY SHOW HORSES ALL SPEND TIME WORKING THE CATTLE!!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING GETS A FREE RIDE HERE!

You will not remain in business or have a livelyhood for very long if you do not follow the same plan. This business has been in the family for now going on 4 GENERATIONS!!!!! I think that says something about my relative experience and I was not affraid or embarrased to put it up there, unlike others.

I am not ashamed to explain why and what my reasons are about and for. Because they are backed up by REAL experience.

[doublebarr]

Originally Posted by kizmet

no not her retirement field cindys! And she was just asking, you dont need to jump all over her! For some that would have been a option. Here in scotland there are always people looking for field companions for there horse and would happily have taken it!

And what happed if she was given to someone as a field ornament, then for some reason that person had to sell her, and because she was rideable, a person bought her and tried to lead her by the reins or halter and she flipped out and seriously hurt or killed them? Once again, I will NOT sell a dangerous horse or allow one to leave this place alive.

(I did offer her FREE to the NH guy. He declined because he felt she was to dangerous and messed up to get through to.)

[kizmet]

You are entitled to run your ranch how you please.

I have never worked or even seen a ranch (fancy going on one of those holidays one day though)

I do not know how they run or what happens within them. I do have REAL expereince of working with horses however and so do MANY people on this forum. ALL do not do the same methods it dos not make one persons any better than anothers.

If you belive in your methods you do not have to make everyone agree with you and get defensive when someone dosnt.

[2horsestoride]

My opinion is this was a dangerous tactic, not a training method I would ever use. What would I have done differently? Found a trainer that could handle the situation. DB - I read your post stating you asked for help from "others"; if their best effort led to the solution you show pictured, then my opinion is that none of you were qualified to handle this particular horse. In light of how this thread is going - let me state clearly - this is my opinion. You don't have to like it, or agree with it, but I am entitled to state it as you asked for it.

That said, I am very happy that your "solution" worked in this case with no apparent harm to the horse.

[kizmet]

well said 2horses!

[kellidahorsegirl]

Originally Posted by wyldterv

I guess I'm a bit confused, what do those of us with even MORE limited space and horse care resources do with a horse that can not be made safe at all??? Are we supposed to keep that horse for life waiting perhaps 20-30 yrs for it to die until we can get another one
Considering this thread was about Cindy and her horse, it isn't relevant what you do with your horses. How did you end up with a horse like that if you had limited space and 'incorrect' facilities for him? Did you just not know til he got there? (really asking here)

(he can run and play in ti, but it's not a HUGE arae and there is no grazing available so he must be fed hay 356 days a year)... sorry the smart alec in me wants to know what he's fed the other 9 days

Originally Posted by doublebarr

Just like NO ONE would pay my retirement if I did not work for them. Same goes for a Ranch business. You don't work, you don't get benfits! Nobody will be paying ME retirement, and because I'm self employeed, my SS benes are almost nothing, I HAVE TO WORK AND EARN MY OWN RETIREMENT FUND MYSELF. Thus our "workers" (read as horses, stock dogs, etc.) must also do the same. I am not asking any more of them then I do of myself.
We don't have benefits either......but animals don't have an option of choosing a company with a retirement plan. WE put them in their jobs, so its our responsibility to work out their retirement plan, whether that be to sell to someone else (if its a SAFE horse), or put them to pasture in one of our fields, or someone else's house.

You will not remain in business or have a livelyhood for very long if you do not follow the same plan. This business has been in the family for now going on 4 GENERATIONS!!!!! I think that says something about my relative experience and I was not affraid or embarrased to put it up there, unlike others.
You're correct to an extent...but most ranches plan out for added 'inconveniences'. It should be in your plan (your being collective) to have something ready for the unwanted horse, dangerous horse, etc. And MY thoughts were not to end in death for this particular horse who was dangerous in a leading situation, but not really otherwise. What you were to do with her if the cart hadn't worked would be your choice, but since we were asked what OUR thoughts were, I answered.

I am not ashamed to explain why and what my reasons are about and for. Because they are backed up by REAL experience.
I'm glad you're not ashamed....and no one else is either. It is not a requirement to tell one's life story just to 'prove' that they know anything. Ever heard a child say 'yeah, well prove it'???? Good, honest folks are willing to take someone's word and not force them to justify by playing the game of my ___ is bigger than yours.

Originally Posted by doublebarr

And what happed if she was given to someone as a field ornament, then for some reason that person had to sell her, and because she was rideable, a person bought her and tried to lead her by the reins or halter and she flipped out and seriously hurt or killed them? Once again, I will NOT sell a dangerous horse or allow one to leave this place alive.

If you felt that would happen (the field ornamanet folks selling her), then you include a contract with first right...you PLAN ahead. And I completely 100% agree with not selling a dangerous horse....thats where you're honest.

[doublebarr]

Originally Posted by kellidahorsegirl

I don't collect horses, I use what I have and don't get what I don't need, So yes, I can keep them around to live out their lives. My choice vs. yours.
And I have no requirement to answer any questions about how our ranching works. We rely on our cattle income....no need to say more, because how we make our money shows no meaning to how we would treat our animals.

ROTFLOL!!! If I 'collected" horses, then I would not sell one on ever. So that point does not fly at all.

No, you have no requirement to answer any questions, but when you tell me you too come from a ranch and you don't believe for one minute that I can't afford to keep her here, then you BETTER be able to back up what you said with real reasons and facts or it is just a line of bull!

Originally Posted by kizmet

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrr yourself, am i not allowed to post on this thread at all? I feel it is personal to jump all over someone when they disagree! Why dosnt cindy just accept that for some people they would not do this method? It is called respect for others!

I have no problem that some people would not do this method. What I have a problem with is people assuming that doing this method in this instance with these facts and realities of the situation was wrong. You can choose to do whatever you want with your horses and more power to you. Just don't condem what YOU DON'T KNOW.

Originally Posted by kellidahorsegirl

I was never against selling her to another HOME.....but I found it unfair to send her to slaughter. If you know how to read, go back and see that is what I said.
And frankly, none of you know how much money my family has, or how we run our ranches, nor is it any of your business. NOR relevant.

The ONLY way to sell her to another home was to get her through this issue. Maybe you would feel comfortable selling a dangerous horse, but I DO NOT!

Originally Posted by kellidahorsegirl

oh interesting! We never told Cindy what she MUST do with the horse. We were all asked what we would do in this situation. I responded with what I would do,,,did not tell Cindy what she should do.

Originally Posted by kellidahorsegirl

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellidahorsegirl
Cindy, you owned this horse? or were just training? (can't remember)
Another option *I* would think of when she got to the point before the cart....would be to turn her out to pasture and live her life out. This results in no 'abusive/dangerous/outside experience' measures AND rules out sending her to slaughter.

And what you will say to that is that this is a ranch and its not feasible to keep them all around..........well....I don't believe that.


Then please clairify for me how you are not telling Cindy what to do here?

I went ahead and put it in bold for you.....is that clearer?

Right there K. You told me you didn't believe that I couldn't "keep her around", so you were telling me that what I did was wrong because I could just throw her out in the pasture. Nope, I cannot just do that. And when I asked you to explain how you knew that I could because you didn't believe that I couldn't, you wouldn't explain yourself. Just like telling someone what they are doing is wrong, but not giving them some other useable advice.