Cutback saddle brands-?

SaddleUp158 · 05-23-2008, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jrchloe

Crosbys have a round cantle and a very flat seat. Something that you stated before you are not looking for.

Also the saddle size for you is very important as well.

True, though I am curious as to the tree size of the Crosby just to get an idea. I will have to check the tree size of the Barnsby at my friend's this weekend as well. I think my friend has a really really old cutback that is caked in dust sitting in tack room. If the one in the tack room is the one they have mentioned to me, it is one they have said I could borrow until I purchase one. I think they said it was a crosby; however, do not hold me to that. The crosby may be the one they sold a couple of years ago. All I remember is not being comfortable at all in it, I think it may be a little big, but mainly it is literally flat as a pancake.

But it would be good to know what works and what does not work with that saddle so I can apply that knowledge when looking for one to purchase, most specifically the tree size. Once I know what size of tree he needs I can narrow my search down to what I need. I can make do and adapt (hopefully) much easier than my gelding. I have had a lot of issues getting western and hunt saddles to fit him and not pinch.

Tack Collector · 05-25-2008, 08:10 AM

above: Freedman 22" I don't know which model.

below: Shively 21" MMX. See how it's narrow through the twist (waist) and the seat is platform with those dropoffs at the sides? This tree (MMX, 2000, Battaglia) works for many people and it's a torture instrument to me. If I slide forward, it's the fence rail. If I move back, it's the seat edges. Ouch, ouch, No fit! LOL. This one went for $1500 on ebay back in first quarter this year. People want over $2000 for them used now.

below: Crosby model 303AB deep seat. 303 is same without the adjustable bars. See ebay 300212152125 for detailed pics of another 21" 303AB. This seat is really comfortble but you sit upright and toward the center. That big cantle shortens the seat.

Tack Collector · 05-25-2008, 08:18 AM

I had another thought or two while watching a predominantly saddle seat show yesterday. The only deep seat saddles I saw were on Saddlebreds and TWHs. Morgans and Arabians had regular seats. When you think about it, the typical close contact saddle doesn't have all that deep of a seat. The APs, show jumping, and eventing saddles might be deeper, but most CCs are not super deep.

This regular seat Crosby is a model 302 and it's not flat. Most of the close contact saddles don't have much more dish to them than this, so a regular seat might be the better choice.

Tack Collector · 05-25-2008, 08:29 AM

I'm not picking fight w/ anyone, just posting more pics than you'd ever get of out the tack shops that are selling these things used, hehe.

This is an older Whitman regular seat 21" Now, I can ride a 21" in this one but I'm reaching forward for the stirrups just b/c any 21" is too long for me. Note the smooth transition at edges of seat into the skirts: no dropoff, no "platform seat." You can sit back to the very back in this shape of seat, and there's just enough cantle so you don't go off the back.

This is a recent Whitman 19" regular seat. Bigger ones are shaped the same, just longer through the center. It's a little deeper seat than that older one. There's a little of that platform seat going on here, but it's not so bad as the Shively's. I can ride a 19 or 20 Whitman regular, but can't get comfortable in 21" regular seat in this model. I'm 5'1" with longer thigh. I love this saddle in 20".

http://www.saddlehorseshop.com/
saddlehorseshop.com has a consigned Campbell ( made in England) 21" for $475 w/ leathers & irons. Looks just like that Whitman, only darker. It has a slight dent on either side of the seat where seatbones have been but feels comfortable to sit in, i.e. feels normal. It's in good shape and has probably the Whitman medium-wide type tree. Billets are good, no seat splits. Can be ridden as-is.

She also has a gorgeous flat seat Crump 22" bridle leather adjustable bar ridden twice. She has a couple of 19" or 20" regular bars that aren't on the web site.

Tack Collector · 05-25-2008, 08:47 AM

Here's a flat Borelli like the one I learned to ride on. If you learn to ride one of these pancakes, any other cutback will be easy after that. Not enough "dish", too flat, wide through the twist. Not near as secure as seat as a Whitman or that Crosby 302 , and multiply that by 1 1/2 if the saddle is too long and you have to sit in the center of the seat.

Tack Collector · 05-25-2008, 09:18 AM

That's my Whitman adjustable bar 20". No sharp edges on that seat. Maybe the people building the saddles sometimes forgot to bevel off the seat edges on some saddles? This seat has no platform and no dropoff.

SaddleUp158 · 05-25-2008, 11:47 AM

TackTrader- Thank you for all the pictures and descriptions! I see what you mean about the narrow twist and all. I have heard you and other people mention narrow twists but never really knew exactly what it meant; I knew it had to do with the seat, but not exactly. I will have to sit down and really look at all these saddles that have been posted and pick out what brands would suit me best and my pocket book! Unfortunately, I have to get ready for right work now.

Tack Collector · 05-25-2008, 06:50 PM

Here's a good link to saddle fitting. This saddler hung around for a while on the UltimateDressage forum. I think she was the one who came up with the tree angle theory. Over on trot.or forum, there's that tree angles and width thread. At the tail end of it, there's a post about how to approximate whether a saddle's tree angle will fit, from a photo.

http://www.schurersaddlefit.com/sciResearch.html

As far as what cutback saddle you like, the best way to determine that is to try as many as possible. Too bad you don't live next door to me.

With Barnsby most but not all of them run 1/2" to 3/4" larger than their stated size, and the standard non-adjustable bars were set a little farther forward. So, people who rode a 21 in other brands often used to get a 20" Barnsby.

Jrchloe · 05-26-2008, 06:04 PM

The best thing to do is to test ride different kinds of saddles and find one that puts you in the correct position without force, is comfortable and fits.

The seat on the Shivley might not bother you, it doesn't bother me so you never know. Whitmans are very comfortable but I personally just don't like how they are cut, it lets you see that girth while mounted and that bothers me. The Crosbys leather seems to be more slick than other saddles I have ridden in. The Freedman model picture looks like the World Cup model because the Victory Pass has leather more like the MMX. The Freedman can put some people in an odd position so you might not like that.

Many saddles look different on the horse. I like a saddle that is cut straight or a little out in the front on the flap because it covers up the billets and girth so you don't see them from say the photographers point of view. Also the quality of the leather is different so some saddles will be difficult to get a little sticky.

Jrchloe · 05-27-2008, 09:19 PM

Also ideally you want a saddle made in England. Then a step down is from Argentina I believe. TackCollector will have more info I'm sure.

05-25-2008, 08:10 AM	#32
Tack Collector Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Dreary Station (near to Coma) Posts: 315 Images: 76	above: Freedman 22" I don't know which model. below: Shively 21" MMX. See how it's narrow through the twist (waist) and the seat is platform with those dropoffs at the sides? This tree (MMX, 2000, Battaglia) works for many people and it's a torture instrument to me. If I slide forward, it's the fence rail. If I move back, it's the seat edges. Ouch, ouch, No fit! LOL. This one went for $1500 on ebay back in first quarter this year. People want over $2000 for them used now. below: Crosby model 303AB deep seat. 303 is same without the adjustable bars. See ebay 300212152125 for detailed pics of another 21" 303AB. This seat is really comfortble but you sit upright and toward the center. That big cantle shortens the seat. Last edited by Tack Collector; 05-25-2008 at 06:54 PM.

05-25-2008, 08:18 AM	#33
Tack Collector Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Dreary Station (near to Coma) Posts: 315 Images: 76	I had another thought or two while watching a predominantly saddle seat show yesterday. The only deep seat saddles I saw were on Saddlebreds and TWHs. Morgans and Arabians had regular seats. When you think about it, the typical close contact saddle doesn't have all that deep of a seat. The APs, show jumping, and eventing saddles might be deeper, but most CCs are not super deep. This regular seat Crosby is a model 302 and it's not flat. Most of the close contact saddles don't have much more dish to them than this, so a regular seat might be the better choice. Last edited by Tack Collector; 05-25-2008 at 09:07 AM.

05-25-2008, 08:29 AM	#34
Tack Collector Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Dreary Station (near to Coma) Posts: 315 Images: 76	I'm not picking fight w/ anyone, just posting more pics than you'd ever get of out the tack shops that are selling these things used, hehe. This is an older Whitman regular seat 21" Now, I can ride a 21" in this one but I'm reaching forward for the stirrups just b/c any 21" is too long for me. Note the smooth transition at edges of seat into the skirts: no dropoff, no "platform seat." You can sit back to the very back in this shape of seat, and there's just enough cantle so you don't go off the back. This is a recent Whitman 19" regular seat. Bigger ones are shaped the same, just longer through the center. It's a little deeper seat than that older one. There's a little of that platform seat going on here, but it's not so bad as the Shively's. I can ride a 19 or 20 Whitman regular, but can't get comfortable in 21" regular seat in this model. I'm 5'1" with longer thigh. I love this saddle in 20". http://www.saddlehorseshop.com/ saddlehorseshop.com has a consigned Campbell ( made in England) 21" for $475 w/ leathers & irons. Looks just like that Whitman, only darker. It has a slight dent on either side of the seat where seatbones have been but feels comfortable to sit in, i.e. feels normal. It's in good shape and has probably the Whitman medium-wide type tree. Billets are good, no seat splits. Can be ridden as-is. She also has a gorgeous flat seat Crump 22" bridle leather adjustable bar ridden twice. She has a couple of 19" or 20" regular bars that aren't on the web site. Last edited by Tack Collector; 05-25-2008 at 09:02 AM.

05-25-2008, 09:18 AM	#36
Tack Collector Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Dreary Station (near to Coma) Posts: 315 Images: 76	That's my Whitman adjustable bar 20". No sharp edges on that seat. Maybe the people building the saddles sometimes forgot to bevel off the seat edges on some saddles? This seat has no platform and no dropoff. Last edited by Tack Collector; 05-25-2008 at 06:50 PM.

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05-25-2008, 08:47 AM	#35
Tack Collector Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Dreary Station (near to Coma) Posts: 315 Images: 76	Here's a flat Borelli like the one I learned to ride on. If you learn to ride one of these pancakes, any other cutback will be easy after that. Not enough "dish", too flat, wide through the twist. Not near as secure as seat as a Whitman or that Crosby 302 , and multiply that by 1 1/2 if the saddle is too long and you have to sit in the center of the seat.

05-25-2008, 11:47 AM	#37
SaddleUp158 Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,657 Images: 65	TackTrader- Thank you for all the pictures and descriptions! I see what you mean about the narrow twist and all. I have heard you and other people mention narrow twists but never really knew exactly what it meant; I knew it had to do with the seat, but not exactly. I will have to sit down and really look at all these saddles that have been posted and pick out what brands would suit me best and my pocket book! Unfortunately, I have to get ready for right work now.

05-25-2008, 06:50 PM	#38
Tack Collector Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Dreary Station (near to Coma) Posts: 315 Images: 76	Here's a good link to saddle fitting. This saddler hung around for a while on the UltimateDressage forum. I think she was the one who came up with the tree angle theory. Over on trot.or forum, there's that tree angles and width thread. At the tail end of it, there's a post about how to approximate whether a saddle's tree angle will fit, from a photo. http://www.schurersaddlefit.com/sciResearch.html As far as what cutback saddle you like, the best way to determine that is to try as many as possible. Too bad you don't live next door to me. With Barnsby most but not all of them run 1/2" to 3/4" larger than their stated size, and the standard non-adjustable bars were set a little farther forward. So, people who rode a 21 in other brands often used to get a 20" Barnsby.

05-26-2008, 06:04 PM	#39
Jrchloe Full Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 190	The best thing to do is to test ride different kinds of saddles and find one that puts you in the correct position without force, is comfortable and fits. The seat on the Shivley might not bother you, it doesn't bother me so you never know. Whitmans are very comfortable but I personally just don't like how they are cut, it lets you see that girth while mounted and that bothers me. The Crosbys leather seems to be more slick than other saddles I have ridden in. The Freedman model picture looks like the World Cup model because the Victory Pass has leather more like the MMX. The Freedman can put some people in an odd position so you might not like that. Many saddles look different on the horse. I like a saddle that is cut straight or a little out in the front on the flap because it covers up the billets and girth so you don't see them from say the photographers point of view. Also the quality of the leather is different so some saddles will be difficult to get a little sticky.

05-27-2008, 09:19 PM	#40
Jrchloe Full Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 190	Also ideally you want a saddle made in England. Then a step down is from Argentina I believe. TackCollector will have more info I'm sure.