[hamerface]

The lowdown:

The mare: (my part of the equation)
Paige
foaled 1996 (13)
Quarter Horse: Unregistered, due to the owner of her dam being somewhat ignorant and refusing to register his fairly well bred mare because she was not either a palomino or buckskin as hoped.


(I know my position is off...)



A poor conformation shot as she was standing on a downhill incline. I don't believe she is terribly downhill, but if need be, I will take actual conformaton shots.



Reason we bred for Paige: There have been other threads where I have mentioned this, but if need be I will address those concerns again.

Reasons I want to breed Paige:
Temperment. This is a very sweet mare.
Scope, she is a deamon on the event course, eating up the jumps and the track. Never refuses, brave, bold and confident. She has tremendous heart and is fairly athletic despite her conformational faults, (and rider faults)
Looks. Shes cute, shes flashy when collected, and she has substantial bone, correct legs, and a lovely head and neck.

her negatives?
Long back and steep shoulder. I find her long back can lead to her being fairly uncoordinated at the canter when not ridden with exacting precision. She is a difficult ride due to this, which is VERY unfortunate as I feel she would make an excellent children’s pony if it weren't for this issue.
If she becomes overweight, her neck will tend to get a bit cresty.
Sometimes I feel she stands a little close in the back end, but this could be more of an illusion due to her wide chest. Thoughts are welcome.

Was hot as a younger horse. Is still energetic, and this can be unsettling to some. She feels like a wound coil, or spring all of the time. It is not dangerous, as she never comes unglued, one while riding can simply feel her energy.

The stallion:
Atomics Bright Idea
Welsh Section A
12.2hh
Registered with the American Sport Pony Registry, and approved for breeding with RPSI
Won the Western Canadian Championship at the American Sport Pony inspection as a foal.



I feel the foal will be marketable (if need be) due to the personality, conformation, looks and athleticism. There are few well bred ponies in my area, and this type of cross could sell easily with the correct training.

I do have the facilities to foal out my mare, raise the foal, and take excellent care of them both.
I do have experience working with youngsters, as Paige (the mare in question) and her brother were both foaled at our home. Additionally, I have worked with two yearlings purchased from a sale and auction respectively. Both were virtually untouched, neither halter broke.
I am prepared for the loss of my mare, the foal, or potentially both.
I am prepared for the consequences of a horrific death or accident involving either. (I have experienced both many times over)
I am equipped to train the foal either myself, or with the assistance of a coach. Having just gone through the beginnings of the training process with my three year old (this year) and with Paige (ten years ago) I understand the process, the time, and the commitment.

So,

What are your personal thoughts on this cross?
Is the stallion in question too small?
What other information would you like to see? I will grab some conformation shots of my mare. I do have videos of the Stallion, as well as his pedigree.
Thanks for taking the time. J

[Lou3]

How tall is the mare?
foals are usually much closer to their dam's height than their sire's so if the mare is horse-sized then your chances of getting a pony size are not great, even with so small a stallion.
I also would not breed this particular mare for a sports pony because of her long back which you admit yourself makes her a difficult ride.

If you were insistant on breeding her I would find a very small POA stallion (if the cross could be registered as a POA) and go down the route of breeding for a western type foal.

In all honesty I probably would not breed her at all as she has conformation faults which by your own admission affect her performance capabilities, she has a hot temperament which would not be good for a childrens pony which seems to be what you want to breed for and she is not registered. No matter how nice the pedigree could have been she doesnt have papers so in real terms it doesnt matter if she's by Big Chex to Cash or Joe Bloggs fugly stallion that jumped the paddock fence one night.

[hamerface]

Originally Posted by Lou3

How tall is the mare?
foals are usually much closer to their dam's height than their sire's so if the mare is horse-sized then your chances of getting a pony size are not great, even with so small a stallion.
I also would not breed this particular mare for a sports pony because of her long back which you admit yourself makes her a difficult ride.

If you were insistant on breeding her I would find a very small POA stallion (if the cross could be registered as a POA) and go down the route of breeding for a western type foal.

In all honesty I probably would not breed her at all as she has conformation faults which by your own admission affect her performance capabilities, she has a hot temperament which would not be good for a childrens pony which seems to be what you want to breed for and she is not registered. No matter how nice the pedigree could have been she doesnt have papers so in real terms it doesnt matter if she's by Big Chex to Cash or Joe Bloggs fugly stallion that jumped the paddock fence one night.

Thank you for your honest answer.
The mare is 14.2hh
She is not hot now, was hot as a green 3-4 year old. (just clarifying)

her pedigree does not matter, no, it is a moot point with no papers. I likely shouldn't have mentioned that she was fairly well bred as there is little to back that up. My claims, and some knowlege of her ancestry. Limited knowledge at that.

I honestly wouldn't object to keeping a large sized pony, or small horse for myself. Which is largely why I am contemplating breeding her.

I do not feel that I absolutely must breed her or she would have been bred by this point already to joe's fugly stallion down the road.

I really do see the merit in hashing this out, and not jumping to my mares defense everytime I find something I disagree with. I know there are a ton of HGSers who are very straigtforward, informed and unbiased, and that is what I am looking for.

[LotsOfSavvy]

Originally Posted by hamerface

her pedigree does not matter, no, it is a moot point with no papers.

Quite frankly her pedigree does matter. Have you tested her for HYPP? If you know she has quarter horse ancestry and DON'T have accurate pedigree information on her...then you have no way of knowing whether or not she could be carrying HYPP. Quite frankly the same is true for EVERY grade horse out there...

IF I were considering breeding a grade mare...the first thing I'd test for is HYPP...hands down.

[grayfox]

Originally Posted by Lou3

How tall is the mare?
foals are usually much closer to their dam's height than their sire's so if the mare is horse-sized then your chances of getting a pony size are not great, even with so small a stallion.
I also would not breed this particular mare for a sports pony because of her long back which you admit yourself makes her a difficult ride.

If you were insistant on breeding her I would find a very small POA stallion (if the cross could be registered as a POA) and go down the route of breeding for a western type foal.

In all honesty I probably would not breed her at all as she has conformation faults which by your own admission affect her performance capabilities, she has a hot temperament which would not be good for a childrens pony which seems to be what you want to breed for and she is not registered. No matter how nice the pedigree could have been she doesnt have papers so in real terms it doesnt matter if she's by Big Chex to Cash or Joe Bloggs fugly stallion that jumped the paddock fence one night.

I don't find that to be true. Also, lots of pony breeders breed larges to smalls to get mediums. You need to find out the dams pedigree heights but you would probably get something in the 13.2 to 13.3 range. I'm not sure how marketable a 13.3 hd pony is. Cute stallion and mare.

[Bratmare]

Originally Posted by LotsOfSavvy

Quite frankly her pedigree does matter. Have you tested her for HYPP? If you know she has quarter horse ancestry and DON'T have accurate pedigree information on her...then you have no way of knowing whether or not she could be carrying HYPP. Quite frankly the same is true for EVERY grade horse out there...

IF I were considering breeding a grade mare...the first thing I'd test for is HYPP...hands down.

I think she was agreeing with Lou3 that no matter how "good" the mares breeding is, its a moot point without papers and thus doesn't matter.

[CJnBucksMom]

Originally Posted by Bratmare

I think she was agreeing with Lou3 that no matter how "good" the mares breeding is, its a moot point without papers and thus doesn't matter.

I don't think pedigree necessarily matters since she's not registered but it could help you understand better what type of foal she MAY produce because of whatever QH lines she has. Just my 2 cents. But yes, without for sure knowing an HYPP status and knowing she is a QH I'd test first.

[hamerface]

Originally Posted by CJnBucksMom

I don't think pedigree necessarily matters since she's not registered but it could help you understand better what type of foal she MAY produce because of whatever QH lines she has. Just my 2 cents. But yes, without for sure knowing an HYPP status and knowing she is a QH I'd test first.

I agree HYPP status is very important. When I sated her pedigree was a moot point, I did mean in regards to how well she was bred. ( Thanks to the poster above for recognizing my intent with that.) I do know her dams side, as I have seen the pedigree of those two fairly well. The mares dam was heavily foundation bred, and there is no lineage back to Impressive or any of his relatives. It is my understanding he is the only stud HYPP has been linked back to. I could be mistaken however. I am often. My mares sire is cutting/cowhorse bred, I know who owned him, but have not seen his papers to be certain. I am still in the process of tracking him down for my own knowledge.

I do own a half brother to my mare, he is by a different sire and has a significanly shorter back, and better shoulder angle. It is with knowing how he is built that I am hoping with the right cross that her offspring will have a shorter back. I of course have no way of being certain.

I am very greatful for the response thus far. I was/ am uncertain of the market availible for a 13ish hh pony, hence my throwing the question out there.


I am open to other suggestions, an am not necissarily set on a pony as a stud either, or any stud for that matter if the concensus is that my mare absolutely should not be bred.

[CJnBucksMom]

If she has cowhorse breeding on her sire's side and you don't know what lines I'd also test and make sure she's not a HERDA carrier. Just for piece of mind. If she is in no way related to Impressive then there is no worry of HYPP.

I don't think the mare is too terrible at all. I'll go over her confo here in a minute and what I like and don't from what I can see. BUT I'm not crazy about the idea of the pony cross. Not that I don't think he's a nice stud, just that I'm not sure if I'd like that cross. If you're wanting a pony to train and sell you're way better off buying one of the multitude of ponies out there, working with it and then selling it as you have a way better opportunity for profit rather than breeding and raising a foal.

If it's something you're after to keep for yourself but want a small stature I'd consider a cow or foundation bred QH who is on the shorter side. You can keep the small size and have a stud I think would compliment her more. JMO, others may disagree. Aside from that, I don't advocate the breeding of ponies, they can be such hateful little creatures, no need to make more. LOL JK TOTALLY KIDDING but had to throw that in there because I thought it'd get a laugh.

With better confo shots I could tell more but I like her bone, as you mentioned, and her overall build. Very cowy to me but yet she has managed to cross over and do other things well (VERSATILITY OF THE QH, gotta love it!). I really like her chest, muscling and her face. I like the way her neck ties in as well. She looks like she may be a little upright in her hind end with a steep croup but that could also just be those photos so I don't want to say for sure. I do like the photo of her from the front very much from what I can see though.

What are you hoping to get from the baby if you went for something you would keep, as in what events?

Btw, I'd put money on the fact that she's heavily Doc Bar bred. She just has that look.

[hamerface]

Originally Posted by CJnBucksMom

If she has cowhorse breeding on her sire's side and you don't know what lines I'd also test and make sure she's not a HERDA carrier. Just for piece of mind. If she is in no way related to Impressive then there is no worry of HYPP.

Good to know, I have never actually heard of HERDA, which I guess just shows my ignorance to QH's and their breeding. I have been attempting to find the studs owner, but to no avail. It is rather frustrating, and I am a little annoyed with my mom (the breeder) for not keeping track of who he was.

Originally Posted by CJnBucksMom

I don't think the mare is too terrible at all. I'll go over her confo here in a minute and what I like and don't from what I can see. BUT I'm not crazy about the idea of the pony cross. Not that I don't think he's a nice stud, just that I'm not sure if I'd like that cross. If you're wanting a pony to train and sell you're way better off buying one of the multitude of ponies out there, working with it and then selling it as you have a way better opportunity for profit rather than breeding and raising a foal.

You are correct, ponies are very cheap, especially unregistered non descript ponies. This is what I need to hear, that this cross is not a good idea.

Originally Posted by CJnBucksMom

If it's something you're after to keep for yourself but want a small stature I'd consider a cow or foundation bred QH who is on the shorter side. You can keep the small size and have a stud I think would compliment her more. JMO, others may disagree. Aside from that, I don't advocate the breeding of ponies, they can be such hateful little creatures, no need to make more. LOL JK TOTALLY KIDDING but had to throw that in there because I thought it'd get a laugh.

Ideally this would be something I would like to keep for myself, but have never honestly considered a QH stud. Why? I'm not sure. I guess I never really considered it an option as I was concerned I would get something wider, possibly longer and?

Originally Posted by CJnBucksMom

With better confo shots I could tell more but I like her bone, as you mentioned, and her overall build. Very cowy to me but yet she has managed to cross over and do other things well (VERSATILITY OF THE QH, gotta love it!). I really like her chest, muscling and her face. I like the way her neck ties in as well. She looks like she may be a little upright in her hind end with a steep croup but that could also just be those photos so I don't want to say for sure. I do like the photo of her from the front very much from what I can see though.

I do think she could be upright in the back end and I do see what you are saying about her croup. I am so constantly used to accepting her long back and less than ideal shoulder angles, that I tend to overlook some less obvious (to me anyhow) things. I should be home at a decent time this evening to grab some shots, or tomorrow. (at the latest Saturday) It is so hard living up North, our daylight hours are limited to the traditional 9-5 working hours. I showed the photo I posted to a friend and her reaction was "oh gad, don't show that." So I guess it isn't as flattering as it could be.

Originally Posted by CJnBucksMom

What are you hoping to get from the baby if you went for something you would keep, as in what events? .

I ride english, predominantly, and I like jumping, cross country etc. I have taken the mare to cattle sorting, but just a handful of times. When I ride with my mom, or my family, it is usually some fairly intense trail riding.

Originally Posted by CJnBucksMom

Btw, I'd put money on the fact that she's heavily Doc Bar bred. She just has that look.

hmm... good to know. I should look him up