[hulachowdown]

Ok I'll post a few of my jumping pictures and some flat pictures( If I can find any)

[pippy]

I like critiquing people, but sadly I m getting a bit tired of seeing the same ole crotch in front of the pomel, legs swung back and no base of support. So i'm leaving the bulk of it up to some one else, i don't like repeating myself. There is another thread in critiques who i commented on she jumps exactly like you bar the release you can go read wht i said there.

Sit and wait for your horse to jump - stop jumping ahead of the horse it interrups their style. Puts them onthe forehand.
Grids to help that is double bounc one stride two stride all verticles, makes you wait for your horse. You are doing far to much work up there.

[HoofPrints11]

When I look at this, there are many faults, as in any riders position, but yours branches all off the same major issue - your leg and heel. A riders base of support is their leg and without the proper strength and position of the lower leg, the rider is going to commit at least some of these major crimes. The leg slipping back, jumping ahead, swinging leg, inability to hold a half-seat and many others. Your heel isn't far enough down, which almost ensures the fact your leg will not be tight and secure, even with a good amount of muscle. Position your sturrip diagonally across the ball of your foot so you have a down - yet not forced - ankle.

After you have corrected this fault, work on your leg staying still. It seems good on the flat, at least on the paint, but the bay as a much more up-and-over type of jump, leaving you feeling you either have to throw yourself at him or be left behind.

I'm thinking maybe (he?) might be a tad to much horse for you, but that problem probably can't be fixed, perhaps start practicing on the paint first.

When you jump, you should wait until your horses thrust gently pushes you out of the saddle. Here we see the classic - and common - example of "overjumping", when your crotch is in front, or in this case above the pommel of the saddle instead of over the twist of the saddle. Jumping ahead like this also means jumping early, even by a fraction of a second. This leaves you completely helpless if your horse were to stop or prop at the last minute.

Overall you look pretty good. What I said sounds quite drastic, when in fact every rider gets away with overjumping at one point or another.

[Kodachrome]

What they said. You are jumping with your upper body, when really all jumping is is following the horses movement with your body. Your lower half shouldn't really change from flat to fence. (harder said than done, my right leg is my swinger!)

The good news - you have nice hands. And that's important! They are out of his mouth, you have a good release. You're looking up for your next fence.

A lot of your leg issue might be your heels. I see in at least one of the pics your foot is too far thru the iron, making it impossible to drive your weight down. Iron on the ball of your foot, heels down. Hey, do like three laps of two point a day... it'll stretch those heels down.

[MIEventer]

LOL Pippy, how do you think George Morris and Jim Wofford Feel??? They give AMAZING advice in their critique columns....but yet people keep sending in the same picture, after the same picture, after the same picture......

Jumping ahead, too long of leathers, crotch over pommel, forward upper bodies, not waiting for the horse, riding the fence - not their horse.

And why? Because we have uneducated coaches turning out uneducated riders.

We cannot lay the responsibllity on the riders entirely - yes, it is up to them to educate themselves and to question their coaches - but if they don't know, they don't know right.

I for one, am happy to help out anyone who reaches out for it but remember, I am no perfect rider and I am not some GP level rider either. I have my faults as everyone has theirs.

But I do believe in solid form beacuse you want to bring out the best of your horse.

Functional over Perched and Posed and Pretty.
~~~~~~

You have a beautiful horse, and I believe you have that potential in you. We all make mistakes and we all try hard - but if you do not have the essential tools to complete a job successfully, how can you make it right?

I highly encourage you to studdy George Morris and his critiques in the Practicle Horseman Magazine and even Jim Wofford *He is to eventing what GM is to Hunter/Jumpers*

I encourage you to also, Studdy Beezie Maddens superior form over fences and even John Linden's and Ian Millars and Beth Underhills. Ludger Beerbalm's and some others.

There are some pretty educated riders out there at top levels that really can encourage you and entice you to follow behind.

I too believe that once you solidify that lower leg and heel - you will improve greatly

Sally Swift is someone as well that can really help you along.


I suggest going to the Lunge Line and working on reinless work - arms out to side and focusing on your seat. Have your coach set up trot poles so you can learn how to stay with your horses motion.

Then gradually increase to Cavaletti's. Same thing - remain on the lunge line and work on solidifying your seat first and not anticipating the fence *jumping ahead*

Work on NOT looking at the fence. Work on trusting your horse to find the distance and ride his rhythm. Focus on wrapping yourself around your horse during these exercises and not just being ontop of him.

Also, stirrupless work. I know this sucks - but you will form a strong and sturdy lower leg that will HELP you instead of HINDERING you.

Work allot on two point. two point, two point, two point. I do so much two point work it isn't funny. Seriously - lol.

Anyways, keep on riding - and remember - you want to bring out the best of your horse and you want to breable to represent your sport to the best of your abillity.

You can be a better rider for him

[Just Jump It]

Everyone else covered your O/F work, so I'll touch on the flatting. (I'm only going off of the pics, cant see the vid).

In all of your pics your reins are way too short. This is made evident in your flatting picture. Your arms are totally straight and not bent or relaxed ata ll. This is causing a chain reaction in your horse - he's stiffening against the bit and pulling against it because you are.

Bend your arms. Relax your elbows. When your reins are this short your arms are forced forward and straight- leaving your elbows unable to absorb the motion of your horses canter stride.

Your elbows must gently move forward and back as your horse moves his head during canter. If your arms are straight and stiff, they have no give. And that means every time your horse takes a stide he hits your hard hands and the bit. This creates a stiff frame and your horse will either stick his head up in the air or suck it back towards his chest. Your paint horse chose the former route.

Start out by lengthening your reins. Keep your outside hand steady and your inside rein more relaxed. Your horse must learn to push into your outside rein but he will only do that if he knows that outside contact will not disappear. Your outside rein is most important, it supports your horse. Keep it down and steady.

Your inside rein supples your horse. It has the opposite job of your outside rien. It must remain supple and relaxed and never hard. Your horse must not lean on it, and he will only stay off of it if you do.

If you constantly pull on that inside rein, your horse will stiffen against you. Do not ever pull that hand back. If your horse sticks his head out and pulls against you, open your inside hand and wiggle your fingers. As soon as he gives, than you bring your hand in and remain soft. Eventually, you won't have to open your hand, but just wiggle your fingers.

Correct flat work is essential to jumping. Too many people, especially in the hunter ring (ooohhh, I'm going to get flamed for that), forget this. Your horse must be working correctly through his back before he even looks at a jump.

Right now your horses hocks are trailing behind him. How can he correctly jump like that? He needs to sit back and rock of his hocks in order to power over the jump which he cannot do if his hocks are not under him. Collect him with lots of half halts and get him packaged. He cannot collect and get his hocks under him until he drops his head and gives to the bit. Then he will be able to lift his back and work through it.

Get him to reach up for that bit with your inside leg, especially around a turn like you are doing in the picture. Don't drop that inside hand, pick it up. Dropping it will only drop your shoulder and create a heavy turn. I really like how you are looking through the turn and not at your horse.

Good luck!

[hulachowdown]

Originally Posted by Just Jump It

Everyone else covered your O/F work, so I'll touch on the flatting. (I'm only going off of the pics, cant see the vid).

In all of your pics your reins are way too short. This is made evident in your flatting picture. Your arms are totally straight and not bent or relaxed ata ll. This is causing a chain reaction in your horse - he's stiffening against the bit and pulling against it because you are.

Bend your arms. Relax your elbows. When your reins are this short your arms are forced forward and straight- leaving your elbows unable to absorb the motion of your horses canter stride.

Your elbows must gently move forward and back as your horse moves his head during canter. If your arms are straight and stiff, they have no give. And that means every time your horse takes a stide he hits your hard hands and the bit. This creates a stiff frame and your horse will either stick his head up in the air or suck it back towards his chest. Your paint horse chose the former route.

Start out by lengthening your reins. Keep your outside hand steady and your inside rein more relaxed. Your horse must learn to push into your outside rein but he will only do that if he knows that outside contact will not disappear. Your outside rein is most important, it supports your horse. Keep it down and steady.

Your inside rein supples your horse. It has the opposite job of your outside rien. It must remain supple and relaxed and never hard. Your horse must not lean on it, and he will only stay off of it if you do.

If you constantly pull on that inside rein, your horse will stiffen against you. Do not ever pull that hand back. If your horse sticks his head out and pulls against you, open your inside hand and wiggle your fingers. As soon as he gives, than you bring your hand in and remain soft. Eventually, you won't have to open your hand, but just wiggle your fingers.

Correct flat work is essential to jumping. Too many people, especially in the hunter ring (ooohhh, I'm going to get flamed for that), forget this. Your horse must be working correctly through his back before he even looks at a jump.

Right now your horses hocks are trailing behind him. How can he correctly jump like that? He needs to sit back and rock of his hocks in order to power over the jump which he cannot do if his hocks are not under him. Collect him with lots of half halts and get him packaged. He cannot collect and get his hocks under him until he drops his head and gives to the bit. Then he will be able to lift his back and work through it.

Get him to reach up for that bit with your inside leg, especially around a turn like you are doing in the picture. Don't drop that inside hand, pick it up. Dropping it will only drop your shoulder and create a heavy turn. I really like how you are looking through the turn and not at your horse.

Good luck!

Thanks for the tips and stuff. As for the hocks thing, my paint is build kinda funny and that is the best trot I can get out of him( hmmmmmm I wonder why I don't show him in hunter anymore...). He will not( and I mean I've have dressage riders on him) put his head down and frame up at all. Either his nose is on the ground or it is high up there. My bay will frame though( It is a pity I just got her or I would have some great flat pics) and I allmost never have my arms out like that....wierd.. I guess I might do it sometimes without noticing it.I 'll just pay a bit more attention to that when I ride inside( cause there are mirrors and I can watch myself)

[hulachowdown]

As for the rest of you guys, thanks for the tips also ( thank-god none of you where just plain dissing me- it happens to me alot) . I just got the bay so it is a bit hard to totaly trust her right now. I will really,really try to not work too hard over jumps. My leg is like my major issue though. I will try really really hard to fix that but it is better then what used to happen( my leg used to be like a mile of my horses sides). Now I just need to keep it still..........oh boy! more 2 point!!!!!. Thanks guys, if you see anything else or have anymore tips, you can post them.

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by hulachowdown

Thanks for the tips and stuff. As for the hocks thing, my paint is build kinda funny and that is the best trot I can get out of him( hmmmmmm I wonder why I don't show him in hunter anymore...). He will not( and I mean I've have dressage riders on him) put his head down and frame up at all. Either his nose is on the ground or it is high up there.

Who are these "dressage riders" who have been on him? Please don't take this the wrong way, as it's only meant to try to help/educate

ANY horse can "frame up" if 1) properly asked/ridden 2) properly conditioned 3) there isn't anything physical preventing it (poor tack fit, something in the body hurts, etc).

If the horse isn't "framing up", then it's not because the horse "will not", it's because of one of those above reasons.

Now, that does not mean he'll look like an upper level Dressage horse - that is partly due to conformation as well as LOTS of training. But it DOES mean that it's not acceptable for a horse to go around EITHER with his nose on the ground OR "high up there". "nose on the ground" is not the same thing as a good, long and low stretch, which is a very valuable tool.

My bay will frame though( It is a pity I just got her or I would have some great flat pics)

I'm curious, for both this comment and the one above, what *you* define as a "frame"

[hulachowdown]

Originally Posted by JBandRio

Who are these "dressage riders" who have been on him? Please don't take this the wrong way, as it's only meant to try to help/educate

ANY horse can "frame up" if 1) properly asked/ridden 2) properly conditioned 3) there isn't anything physical preventing it (poor tack fit, something in the body hurts, etc).

If the horse isn't "framing up", then it's not because the horse "will not", it's because of one of those above reasons.

Now, that does not mean he'll look like an upper level Dressage horse - that is partly due to conformation as well as LOTS of training. But it DOES mean that it's not acceptable for a horse to go around EITHER with his nose on the ground OR "high up there". "nose on the ground" is not the same thing as a good, long and low stretch, which is a very valuable tool.


I'm curious, for both this comment and the one above, what *you* define as a "frame"

Ok the dressage people are my old old trainer and her husband and they rode him for like 2 months when I broke my arm and couldn't get his head down.

I really think it is just the way he is built because he has acceptible conformation for a paint but he sits a bit to much on his hocks naturaly.I t might just be because he hurt something ( not sure if it is back or leg)because he can't even do flying lead changes without kicking( he used to do them perfectly) . Right now he is on pasture rest until we get the vet out to see if anything is wrong .

A frame is....
when your horse lowers it's head and flexes at its pole. Their back 'pops' up and they get round all along their body. They have to use their hidelegs more and it makes them more powerful( as long as you are rideing them in between your hand and leg).bla bla bla I know what a frame is...I've been riding long enough to know that.