cranial nervouse system

Mountaingirl89 · 01-24-2008, 03:45 PM

Ok so I had a post here last week or so about my mare and we all thought she had EPM. She has been at UC Davis for three days now and they don't think that she has EPM (although they are not ruleing it out yet) but they have found that she has some cranial nerve damage. She has a droopy mouth, and her eye lids don't seem to be closing all the way. The also did a test to see how long it took her brain to respond to noise (but they don't have her tests on that back yet) becouse they think her hearing may be affected too. Today they are doing Muscle biopsy's on her shoulders, barrel and hind end.
So just wondering what success people have had with mystery ailments (everyone at Davis thinks she is an "interesting" case becouse they can't fit her symptons into any one disease or illness). We are also considering that she may have a blockage in her brain that is cutting off nerves. Is there anything they can do about that? I haven't had a chance to ask the vet yet. The vet also said that her immune system could be attacking itself, what could cause that?
Just looking for other people's stories as far as these "interesting" cases go, or suggestions as to something the vets haven't thought of yet.
Thanks!!

JBandRio · 01-24-2008, 05:51 PM

Are they sure she didn't have a stroke? What about getting knocked on the head?

Ryle · 01-25-2008, 07:12 AM

You are in a realm where UC Davis or one of the other veterinary research facilities is your best bet for figuring out what's wrong. Not too many folks know tons about neurology. Head trauma, tumor, abnormal migration of parasites---lots fo weird things could cause this and the vets and vet students are better prepared to look at what is going on and even make guesses.

Good luck!

Blistering Winds · 01-25-2008, 07:22 AM

WNV, Stroke, both come to mind since EPM is ruled out. (has it been ruled out)??? JB's point on an external source such as a kick to the head could cause it too. A break somewhere in the body, with a piece of clot or even a part of the broken bone migrating to the wrong place can do it too. So many thoughts and ideas come to mind, I couldn't even begin to write them all.

UC Davis is a good place to be. Glad you are close enough to have some of the best people working on your horse.

I do wish you and your horse luck. Please keep us in the loop if you don't mind. Good or bad.....we are here for you.

Blistering Winds · 01-25-2008, 07:24 AM

Quote:

The vet also said that her immune system could be attacking itself, what could cause that?

my horse had that happen.

EHV, equine herpies virus is a common cause, and your horse is showing neurological symptoms for sure if it is. Most all horses harbor this virus. Same as humans and "cold sores" as far as "family" of viruses. And if it is, you might be making a hard decision.

Strangles can cause an immune attack.

Anything can. If your horse was sick for a while, and something else Dings the immune system....can cause the attack....

Mountaingirl89 · 01-25-2008, 09:48 AM

Thanks for your imput everyone. The vets don't think she had any head truma becouse her paralysis is the same on both sides of her head.
I just talked to the vet and she thinks the muscle wasting is not connected to the head paralysis, but maybe a result of her not being able to eat very well (although she has a great appatite). They are still waiting for some tests to come in but would like to send her home on Vitamine E and Banamine and put her on a high protine diet. Then see what the rest of her tests say. The vet is telling me that she may be a case where they never find out what is wrong with her. Although she did say that she could have a cancer somewhere in her body that they have been unable to find(she did an ultrasound on her body this morning to look).
So I guess we are just waiting for the rest of the tests to come in.
I think, but I'm not sure that they have definatly ruled out EPM. I think that the results from her spinal tap came back today. And they ruled out WNV a while ago. I don't know about Equine herpies.
I'm a little let down that Davis with all there high tech equitment can't figure out what is wrong with her. And that it has so far cost me fifteen hundred to find out that they don't know what is wrong with her.

Blistering Winds · 01-25-2008, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountaingirl89

Thanks for your imput everyone. The vets don't think she had any head truma becouse her paralysis is the same on both sides of her head.
I just talked to the vet and she thinks the muscle wasting is not connected to the head paralysis, but maybe a result of her not being able to eat very well (although she has a great appatite). They are still waiting for some tests to come in but would like to send her home on Vitamine E and Banamine and put her on a high protine diet. Then see what the rest of her tests say. The vet is telling me that she may be a case where they never find out what is wrong with her. Although she did say that she could have a cancer somewhere in her body that they have been unable to find(she did an ultrasound on her body this morning to look).
So I guess we are just waiting for the rest of the tests to come in.
I think, but I'm not sure that they have definatly ruled out EPM. I think that the results from her spinal tap came back today. And they ruled out WNV a while ago. I don't know about Equine herpies.
I'm a little let down that Davis with all there high tech equitment can't figure out what is wrong with her. And that it has so far cost me fifteen hundred to find out that they don't know what is wrong with her.

Why are you disappointed? Not everythign can be diagnosed with a snap of a finger. Not everything has a test. All we can do is rule out what we CAN test for, and "guess" at the rest. there are still diseases and issues that have not been 100% pin pointed and SOO MANY have the SAME symptoms. You can rule out some by adding some meds and watching the symptoms clear up or get worse....but all in all, Medicine PERIOD is a guessing game in essence. Start with the most obvious, rule it out till you have the "what the heck" diseases that are still unnamed and unclassified.

It is hard. It really is. I still do not know the exact trigger for my own horse's illness earlier this year. I still do not know why he had an odd presentation to Pigeon Fever before that. Most medicine treatments are "treat the symptoms and hope for the best". This goes for both human and animal medicine.

Keep that in mind, I know it is disheartening not to have an exact pinpoint. And not all cancers present perfectly, neither do tumors. Ever watch House? the most TINIEST little thing that cannot be detected can mess up the whole body, stumping 4 bright doctors!!! Things like that DO happen!!! Both in animals and humans. We are limited because we are not Gods and with horses not being able to talk and tell us what does hurt internally and where....it makes it even harder. (and why I feel vets are ten times better doctors than most human doctors at times!!!)

Mountaingirl89 · 01-25-2008, 02:18 PM

Yeah I understand that, its just that she has only been at Davis for three days and they are just sending her home on vitamin E and Banamine and a diet change. That is only going to help her muscle loss, not nerve damage in her head. I can understand putting her on different medicine to try to help her but thats not what is happening, the vitamin E and banamine are not for whatever is going on in her head.maybe its just that to me it sounds like the vet is giving up looking for something on my six year old horse.
But THANK-YOU!!, you did remind me that these things do take time.

01-24-2008, 03:45 PM	#1
Mountaingirl89 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ity bity town south of SF, Ca. Don't blink. Posts: 425 Images: 51 Blog Entries: 14	cranial nervouse system Ok so I had a post here last week or so about my mare and we all thought she had EPM. She has been at UC Davis for three days now and they don't think that she has EPM (although they are not ruleing it out yet) but they have found that she has some cranial nerve damage. She has a droopy mouth, and her eye lids don't seem to be closing all the way. The also did a test to see how long it took her brain to respond to noise (but they don't have her tests on that back yet) becouse they think her hearing may be affected too. Today they are doing Muscle biopsy's on her shoulders, barrel and hind end. So just wondering what success people have had with mystery ailments (everyone at Davis thinks she is an "interesting" case becouse they can't fit her symptons into any one disease or illness). We are also considering that she may have a blockage in her brain that is cutting off nerves. Is there anything they can do about that? I haven't had a chance to ask the vet yet. The vet also said that her immune system could be attacking itself, what could cause that? Just looking for other people's stories as far as these "interesting" cases go, or suggestions as to something the vets haven't thought of yet. Thanks!!

01-24-2008, 05:51 PM	#2
JBandRio Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NC Posts: 21,613 Images: 132 Blog Entries: 12	Are they sure she didn't have a stroke? What about getting knocked on the head? __________________ - JB Acres, owned and operated by Dynamite animals. - It's a wonder horses as a whole don't just kill us all and be done with their misery. - Keep your voice soothing and low - even when things get western (buck1173) - Rio feels good - he bounced an in-and-out

01-25-2008, 07:12 AM	#3
Ryle Senior Member+ Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 2,697 Images: 1	You are in a realm where UC Davis or one of the other veterinary research facilities is your best bet for figuring out what's wrong. Not too many folks know tons about neurology. Head trauma, tumor, abnormal migration of parasites---lots fo weird things could cause this and the vets and vet students are better prepared to look at what is going on and even make guesses. Good luck! __________________ Cindy D. Registered Veterinary Technician Member American Assoc. of Equine Veterinary Technicians

01-25-2008, 07:22 AM	#4
Blistering Winds Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Augusta, Kansas Posts: 31,724 Images: 814 Blog Entries: 16	WNV, Stroke, both come to mind since EPM is ruled out. (has it been ruled out)??? JB's point on an external source such as a kick to the head could cause it too. A break somewhere in the body, with a piece of clot or even a part of the broken bone migrating to the wrong place can do it too. So many thoughts and ideas come to mind, I couldn't even begin to write them all. UC Davis is a good place to be. Glad you are close enough to have some of the best people working on your horse. I do wish you and your horse luck. Please keep us in the loop if you don't mind. Good or bad.....we are here for you. __________________ 20 lb club: New year Start: 175 Goal: 130 Current: 158 Total loss this year 17 lbs.

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01-25-2008, 09:48 AM	#6
Mountaingirl89 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ity bity town south of SF, Ca. Don't blink. Posts: 425 Images: 51 Blog Entries: 14	Thanks for your imput everyone. The vets don't think she had any head truma becouse her paralysis is the same on both sides of her head. I just talked to the vet and she thinks the muscle wasting is not connected to the head paralysis, but maybe a result of her not being able to eat very well (although she has a great appatite). They are still waiting for some tests to come in but would like to send her home on Vitamine E and Banamine and put her on a high protine diet. Then see what the rest of her tests say. The vet is telling me that she may be a case where they never find out what is wrong with her. Although she did say that she could have a cancer somewhere in her body that they have been unable to find(she did an ultrasound on her body this morning to look). So I guess we are just waiting for the rest of the tests to come in. I think, but I'm not sure that they have definatly ruled out EPM. I think that the results from her spinal tap came back today. And they ruled out WNV a while ago. I don't know about Equine herpies. I'm a little let down that Davis with all there high tech equitment can't figure out what is wrong with her. And that it has so far cost me fifteen hundred to find out that they don't know what is wrong with her.

01-25-2008, 02:18 PM	#8
Mountaingirl89 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ity bity town south of SF, Ca. Don't blink. Posts: 425 Images: 51 Blog Entries: 14	Yeah I understand that, its just that she has only been at Davis for three days and they are just sending her home on vitamin E and Banamine and a diet change. That is only going to help her muscle loss, not nerve damage in her head. I can understand putting her on different medicine to try to help her but thats not what is happening, the vitamin E and banamine are not for whatever is going on in her head.maybe its just that to me it sounds like the vet is giving up looking for something on my six year old horse. But THANK-YOU!!, you did remind me that these things do take time.