[SaddleUp158]

I had a thread not too long ago about treatment for thrush, this turned into a discussion on the condition of my gelding's feet. Here is the link to that thread, there are pictures of his feet prior to his trim on that thread. Vinegar for thrush?

He had his feet done on Friday, and the farrier left little nubs for a foot with a lot of heel. (Keep in mind this is only the second time I have ever used this farrier, but the barn I board at has used him for a while.) I know now this was a mistake on my part, but I just told him that the horse needed a trim. The farrier commented that he was overdue for a trim, in which I responded that "yes, he had a lot of heel and his frogs needed trimming, but the length of hoof was not too long for what we do. Typically when we show we have about 4 inches of foot."

Well, he starts trimming away (I cant see the hoof until he is sets it down b/c I am holding the horse and the farrier's body is obviously in the way!) and once he finishes the foot I see it is really really short. I didn't say anything for a couple of reasons, whether right or wrong at the time, I don't know. 1) I figured that for the horse it was better if all feet were trimmed to the same length (i pictured trying to walk with a high heel on one foot and a tennis shoe on the other, difficult!), and 2) since I was not familiar with this farrier's way of trimming I wanted to see what type of job he did without being told what to do on each and every aspect.

Well, my friend came out to look at the trim job for me, and confirmed what I thought I saw, too much heel and not enough toe, not to mention how short they are. He was definitely tender after being trimmed. She advised me to use him one more time and be very specific in what I want, and see if he can trim to my satisfaction. Her mother, my mentor of sorts, has not seen the feet this time around, but had a different horse trimmed by him a few months ago who had the same issues that my horse has-too much heel, and very very short with very little toe. She advised to not use him again.

I will try and get new pictures, but just knowing what I information I have given, would you give him another chance or would you be seeking another farrier. I can take him home everytime he needs his feet done (this is about an hour -ish drive with the trailer), or just take him home for the farrier until I find one here at school. The farrier back home is very competent and we have used him for years. He is great.

Oh, I show Morgans, and will be showing in dressage, hunter pleasure and/or western pleasure. My gelding is 3 yrs old and we are working on dressage right now. When we start showing this summer we will definitely do some dressage, but whether he goes hunt or western that is not decided yet. If I remember correctly the shoeing regulations are the same for hunt and western or close enough that we would have him shod within the regulations that would be legal for both disciplines.

[jumpthemoon]

I would be hauling him home to your farrier rather than continue with someone you are not happy with. That certainly sounds like that is in the best interest of your horse.

[SaddleUp158]

That was my gut reaction too; however, when my friend said it might be a good idea to use him one more time and be very specific in what I wanted, in other words give him a chance to do exactly what I want. I don't want to mess around here, luckily come mid-April, after our first show back home(not showing, just going for the experience) the farrier will be back out at home anyway so I can make a stop at home and then go on back to school and eliminate an extra hour of driving. He can start correcting, and at that time I may need to put a light shoe on since the first show we will show at is in May.

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by SaddleUp158

He had his feet done on Friday, and the vet left little nubs for a foot with a lot of heel.

The vet? Or the farrier?

once he finishes the foot I see it is really really short.

Short which way - vertically or horizontally?

He was definitely tender after being trimmed.

If he wasn't tender before, this is a problem.

She advised me to use him one more time and be very specific in what I want, and see if he can trim to my satisfaction.

It should not be your job to tell your farrier/trimmer how to trim, unless you are discussing some very specific discipline-specific requirements. As far as I can tell, this isn't the case here, but rather you trying to get a good, balanced trim for your horse. HE should know how to do that.

As for your satisfaction - what would that mean? The horse isn't sore after the trim? The heels are lower? The toe left longer? You need to have in your mind what you are after so that you can decide if this, or any farrier/trimmer seems to know what they are doing

Here's a piece of homework for you Find a hoof on any of the sites posted (here or in your other thread) that you think is a well-balanced foot. Bring it here, and describe what needs to happen (generally) with your horse's foot (just pick one) to get there, and whether you think it can happen in one trim or if it will take several trims. This isn't trying to make you come out looking stupid on this, I promise It's to get a good idea of what you already know (or don't) and to help you figure out what you DO need to know so you can better evaluate a given farrier/trimmer's work and whether they are headed in the right direction.

I will try and get new pictures, but just knowing what I information I have given, would you give him another chance or would you be seeking another farrier.

Without seeing current pictures, and being able to compare them to the previous ones, it's a tough call right now.

[SaddleUp158]

Originally Posted by JBandRio

The vet? Or the farrier?
Oops! Sorry about the typo, I meant the farrier! I will fix that.

Short which way - vertically or horizontally?
Vertically, I will measure his feet this afternoon when I go out there, but just visually looking at them, I would put them at 2 inches vertically.

If he wasn't tender before, this is a problem.
I only noticed the tenderness when I rode him, otherwise he seemed fine. The tenderness showed up in his being irritable, didn't feel lame, just very up and down and he was fussy over things he typically is not.

It should not be your job to tell your farrier/trimmer how to trim, unless you are discussing some very specific discipline-specific requirements. As far as I can tell, this isn't the case here, but rather you trying to get a good, balanced trim for your horse. HE should know how to do that.
Ok, this is what I was thinking as well, just wanted to make sure I shouldn't have to spell it out for him.

As for your satisfaction - what would that mean? The horse isn't sore after the trim? The heels are lower? The toe left longer? You need to have in your mind what you are after so that you can decide if this, or any farrier/trimmer seems to know what they are doing
This is something else I have thought and thought about. In the years past I have kept my horse at my mentor's place and she just told the farrier if she wanted a trim. He understood what she meant by a trim, and that meant do not take as much foot off like you would a quarter horse or other stock breed. He doesn't like it, but he does a nice job anyway. So I have always told the farrier just trim this horse and put such and such shoes on this one, if for some reason she couldn't be out there when he came out. He already understands what we mean by a trim, meaning length of foot. We also never have trouble with too much heel or not enough, or any other issues with him. I hope I was right in thinking I shouldn't have to tell a farrier how to trim. Length of foot aside, I feel like I should not have to tell the farrier to make sure he doesn't leave the horse standing up on high heels.

Here's a piece of homework for you Find a hoof on any of the sites posted (here or in your other thread) that you think is a well-balanced foot. Bring it here, and describe what needs to happen (generally) with your horse's foot (just pick one) to get there, and whether you think it can happen in one trim or if it will take several trims. This isn't trying to make you come out looking stupid on this, I promise It's to get a good idea of what you already know (or don't) and to help you figure out what you DO need to know so you can better evaluate a given farrier/trimmer's work and whether they are headed in the right direction.
I will do this! I will say up front that I do not know much about trimming and this is a lot of my problem because I know I am seeing issues with his feet, but I do not necessarily know how to get my point across constructively.


Without seeing current pictures, and being able to compare them to the previous ones, it's a tough call right now.

Sorry about that, I was up late last night because of caffeine and figured I would post this. I am getting updated pics this afternoon when I go out to work him.



THank you so much for your insight!

[Reitpferde]

I think you had already made up your mind, just not articulated it out loud! Go with your gut and don't use him again. You do not owe this farrier anything!

[JBandRio]

Oops! Sorry about the typo, I meant the farrier! I will fix that.

LOL, it's ok, I figured you really meant farrier

Short which way - vertically or horizontally?
Vertically, I will measure his feet this afternoon when I go out there, but just visually looking at them, I would put them at 2 inches vertically.

2" where? 2" at the heels would be pretty darn tall. 2" vertically from the front of the coronet band to the ground might or might not be too short depending on the foot.

If he wasn't tender before, this is a problem.
I only noticed the tenderness when I rode him, otherwise he seemed fine. The tenderness showed up in his being irritable, didn't feel lame, just very up and down and he was fussy over things he typically is not.

Moving like a sewing machine can be a sign of sore feet.

It should not be your job to tell your farrier/trimmer how to trim, unless you are discussing some very specific discipline-specific requirements. As far as I can tell, this isn't the case here, but rather you trying to get a good, balanced trim for your horse. HE should know how to do that.
Ok, this is what I was thinking as well, just wanted to make sure I shouldn't have to spell it out for him.

Nope, you shouldn't

As for your satisfaction - what would that mean? The horse isn't sore after the trim? The heels are lower? The toe left longer? You need to have in your mind what you are after so that you can decide if this, or any farrier/trimmer seems to know what they are doing
This is something else I have thought and thought about. In the years past I have kept my horse at my mentor's place and she just told the farrier if she wanted a trim. He understood what she meant by a trim, and that meant do not take as much foot off like you would a quarter horse or other stock breed.

I'm not sure I understand A trim is a trim - unless you are trimming specifically for a discipline-related criteria (ie taller feet for the saddleseat-type horses) then you trim to balance the foot. I would wager that if there was something different/special about a QH trim, it would be not taking enough foot off, creating the tall, boxy, smaller (footprint) hoof that seems so unfortunately popular

He doesn't like it, but he does a nice job anyway. So I have always told the farrier just trim this horse and put such and such shoes on this one, if for some reason she couldn't be out there when he came out. He already understands what we mean by a trim, meaning length of foot.

Length of foot is all relative

We also never have trouble with too much heel or not enough, or any other issues with him. I hope I was right in thinking I shouldn't have to tell a farrier how to trim. Length of foot aside, I feel like I should not have to tell the farrier to make sure he doesn't leave the horse standing up on high heels.

You're right, you shouldn't.

Here's a piece of homework for you Find a hoof on any of the sites posted (here or in your other thread) that you think is a well-balanced foot. Bring it here, and describe what needs to happen (generally) with your horse's foot (just pick one) to get there, and whether you think it can happen in one trim or if it will take several trims. This isn't trying to make you come out looking stupid on this, I promise It's to get a good idea of what you already know (or don't) and to help you figure out what you DO need to know so you can better evaluate a given farrier/trimmer's work and whether they are headed in the right direction.
I will do this! I will say up front that I do not know much about trimming and this is a lot of my problem because I know I am seeing issues with his feet, but I do not necessarily know how to get my point across constructively.

Great It doesn't matter how much you don't know right now, the point of all this is that you obviously want to learn, and this exercise will get you started

[tigertwo]

He is on the right path but he needs to take more heel off assuming the horse is not club footed. It’s not a matter of legal regulations but what is right for the horse’s health.

4" of hoof no matter what you do is too long. From what I can make of his hoof size he needs to be 3 1/8" to 3 1/4 at the most with a front hoof angel of 54 and hind of 56. Point of brake over will be 1" to 1 1/2 " at the most from the apex of the frog.

[SaddleUp158]

I went out to work Striker yesterday and he was still tender at the trot, but was ok at the walk. So we just worked on steering by seat and yielding to the leg at the walk, he did excellent. I also found out that another horse came up sore as well after being trimmed on Friday.

Looking at the pictures, they don't show the amount of heel I see in person. I hope the angle of the shot is good enough for you to get an idea.

Here are the pics as promised!


Front Feet


Left Fore Right Fore


Left Fore Right Fore


Back Feet Left Hind


Right Hind


Right Hind Right Hind


Left Hind

[SaddleUp158]

JB: As far as these pics go, the main thing I would want changed is more toe. Some of the pics show more heel than I think is necessary; in person I see a lot more heel, especially in comparison to the amount of toe. Perhaps, the reason I think I am seeing a lot of heel is because the toe is so short?

Looking at the sole shots, I see one side of the hoof is wider on one side of the frog than the other. I have no idea if this is something to be worried about or if it is just how his feet are.