[BettyBootsy]

She said she wasn't having bolting problems anymore re read her post. Shes trying to teach her horse to back not as a punishment but to simply just back! Edit to say I re read it Well sorry maybe I'm wrong? Are you using backing as a punishment or to simply learn to back?

[QHgin]

I'm just trying to get her to back. she will back in a curb but not a snaffle. But it could be my own fault. she still tries to bolt while ridding but wont get far in the ring. if i take her out she bolts at a complete gallop. when i end my ride i like to come to the middle of the ring stop back up a step or two and then get off. that just what i was taught to to.

[BettyBootsy]

On the bolting I agree with pooch. Lots of circles keep forward just circle to slow down the pace. Half halts and transitions. I would do lots of work on the hip too. Roll backs into the fence. I would stay in a snaffle. Changing bits aren't going to help. Start out every session with flexion exercises. Good luck!

[PoochtheMighty]

Originally Posted by QHgin

I'm just trying to get her to back. she will back in a curb but not a snaffle. But it could be my own fault. she still tries to bolt while ridding but wont get far in the ring. if i take her out she bolts at a complete gallop.

I really, really think you need to address this issue first and foremost. Bolting is bolting. Don't accept that behavior; it could get you hurt.

when i end my ride i like to come to the middle of the ring stop back up a step or two and then get off. that just what i was taught to to.

I understand. Did you ever ask why they taught you this? What is the purpose?


Every horse and rider is different- I was "taught" a lot of things and I definitely would never apply them because they are outdated and have no real benefit.

[BettyBootsy]

Nothing really outdates in training! Not just one way is the way or the only way. It's more every horse is different and what may work on one may not work for another. Learning and taking all info only makes you wiser and a better horsemen! Knowledge! There are 100 ways to accomplish the same goal! It's a matter of what works for you and your horse. Good luck!

[Rhythm 'n Blues]

I am willing to guess that your horse is in PAIN. You even said it yourself that she needs her wolf teeth out!!

I don't know if you know, but those teeth sit RIGHT where the bit goes, so they hurt! I would NEVER ride a horse with a bit if they still had wolf teeth! I've had new clients stop everything that they are doing and go to a halter, simply b/c I've suspected wolf teeth......100% of the time I've been right so far. Once those teeth are out, the problems are gone, and the rider and horse can get back to having a great relationship in confort

[eqtrainer]

Try using a full cheek snaffle. The bars help the horse in turning by guiding his face in the direction that you want him to go.

[seaecho]

I know you are getting tons of suggestions and opinions, and its hard to sort through all of them so you can apply what you have learned. I think the responses have been excellent. I just wanted to bring up something that I had a problem with, with my horse as far as bits go. I was too heavy-handed. I didn't realize it until I tried him in a Myler short shank curb. Supposedly, you can direct rein a horse in one of these because of the swivel shanks. Well, it didn't work. His head went clear down to the dirt, and stayed there. And at the same time, he was a virtual freight train - ran right through my hands. I tried to do one-rein stops but I really do believe the curb hurt his mouth (even though it had the swivel shanks because he lifted his head higher than he ever did with a snaffle (and this horse literally NEVER comes even close to throwing his head). So I knew he was uncomfortable, if not in pain. The reason I tried the curb in the first place was because he was "running away" with me with a snaffle. When I say running away, he wasn't all-out bolting, but like another poster said, he was still running away, even at a trot, because I definitely didn't have control, and I could feel it. There was no mistaking it.


Your horse will back with the curb, but not turn. That was part of my problem too. I felt I couldn't take ahold of him and turn him as much as someone would for a one-rein stop. I also like to practice lateral flexion while walking my horse in a straight line. I also felt this was hurting him, as he fought it, and didn't in the snaffle. So I learned through much trial and error that I need to use a snaffle or Kimberwick (GENTLY!) on my horse in order to feel like I have control without hurting my horse. Every horse and every rider is different, as was also stated, but generally, you have the right idea when you felt you should go back to the milder bit before even trying a harsher one. Its all in the training and how experienced the rider is.

I don't know that I agree with the poster who said backing won't help with stopping. Have you watched Clinton Anderson on RFD-TV? He does TONS of backing and lateral flexion on his horses, they stop on a dime, and don't lack forward at all! I feel your horse is uncomfortable in the curb, but I could be wrong. It could also be the way you are using your hands, as was in my case. Some people just seem to have too heavy of a hand to use a curb. The minute we feel threatened, or like the horse might do something stupid, we tense up, and naturally put tension in the reins. Its automatic, and a very difficult habit to break, especially when you are nervous about what a horse might do. I also tend to want to lean forward, and you may also be doing that. To the horse, when we lean forward, he takes that as a signal that we want to go faster. I felt I had power steering with my horse (who is a TWH by the way) when I first tried the curb. It was great, and he went into a wonderful frame and came up underneath himself more. But the minute I tried direct reining, everything came apart.

Using a martingale, I agree, would be a mistake. Horses react different, but many highly strung horses will feel claustrophobic if their head is restricted, and some may panic. It could be very dangerous. Proceed with extreme caution when using anything different on a horse as far as tack goes - and this goes for bits as well as martingales, draw reins, etc.

And its so true that to respond correctly in a curb, the horse must be well versed in leg and seat cues. I am living proof! My TWH had been trained in Missouri, and most gaited horses are not trained to leg and seat cues, for reasons I can't understand. Many are also not taught to canter under saddle! The emphasis is always on gait, gait, gait. My horse was ridden in a Wonder Bit before I bought him, and this bit can be used clipped to the top ring (acts like a snaffle) or bottom ring (acts as a curb). But it does have the "nutcracker" effect on the tongue so that is why I eventually went with Myler bits only. Good luck!

[QHgin]

she doesn't have wolf teeth........shes only 5. I'm not sure why i was taught to back b-4 i get off. i was also taught to never stop my horse unless I'm in the middle of the ring. I wasn't able to ride her yesterday so ill try it today.

[PoochtheMighty]

QHGin-

Neither of those things are neccessarily beneficial. Especially the second one.

I know a lot of people who teach group lessons tell you not to stop unless you are in the middle so there won't be any 'car wrecks' or whatever- but when you are schooling in a large group of people, you will find that they stop wherever they need to, whenever they need to, and you must learn to go around each other. Always give plenty of space and use the left shoulder rule.

When you stop only in the middle of the arena, horses can learn 'hey, that's my break area' and they'll sort of scoot over little by little until they are in the center of the arena, wondering why you don't want them to stop. Horses are very observant, and they learn to anticipate. If you ever want to do any work in the center of the arena, it will be very hard because the horse will think 'but this is where I stop!!' And when you stop him on the rail, he'll think 'but this is where I go!!'

Backing before you get off can also be a very bad thing to do because when the horse gets fed up with you, he may think 'oh, well i want to be done with this so let me just back up so she'll get off' This can lead to him backing whenever he is confused or frustrated. And that can lead to rearing.

It is good to be open minded and do what your trainer says, but don't just do what people say because they say it. They are not always right. Use your own thought processes to say "How is this helping my horse or me?"