Compare saddles?

magic_rider · 01-25-2008, 10:18 PM

It might be worth thinking about weather you really want CAIR, it costs more and there is speculation over weather it is actually any better.

Racket · 01-25-2008, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magic_rider

It might be worth thinking about weather you really want CAIR, it costs more and there is speculation over weather it is actually any better.

Really, how so?

This is really helping me out guys, thanks!

Rhythm 'n Blues · 01-26-2008, 04:19 AM

Well the Cair isn't really adjustable. I mean it can be adjusted, but the adjustments have to be done by playing with the wool that is between the cair panels and the tree of the saddle.

I have a Bates with Cair, and I can tell you, the Cair rides ALOT differently then wool, or een foam for that matter. It has this extra "bounce" to it, and I can assure you I hate that "extra" bounce when I'm already riding a very large strided horse! I have found that adding a real sheepkin under my saddle has really helped, but again, that's another expence.

Another thing to think of when you're thinking of cair and flair saddles is that the pannels are filled with air, and air pressure changes with the temperature. So really from the time you take that saddle off the saddle rack to the time you put it back on the rack the temperature is constantly changing (horses's back is getting warmer, then sweating, then cooling down, etc) so really the air pressure in those saddles is never going to be 100% the same for any given moment.

I didn't buy the saddle I ride in, it came with my lease horse (a friends). I like that this horse came with his own tack, but at the same time I will NEVER buy a saddle with any type of air pannels!

Andalucian · 01-26-2008, 05:19 AM

Just thought I'd echo the CAIR sentiments here. I've ridden in a few friends' and clients' saddles with the CAIR system, and personally I don't like it. To be fair, I've been struggling with a couple of herniated discs for a few years now, so any additional "bounce" is somewhat excruciating. That issue aside, I just didn't like the ride.

I've also had a couple of horses that don't like CAIR. A lot. They get tense and short-strided, and I've known a few to even buck. I had a client who brought in her mare complaining the horse was quick, choppy, nervous, and hollow in the back. All of these problems disappeared as soon as I swapped her Wintec Isabel for one of my (wool flocked) dressage saddles.

That said, I've known a lot of people and horses to absolutely love the CAIR system. I doubt Wintecs would be as popular as they are now if it wasn't at least passable for most horses and riders, given that most of the newer Wintecs out there do have CAIR. I wouldn't write it off for everyone. I just wouldn't really recommend buying a saddle with it until the horse/rider pair has tried it out.

Just my thoughts.

Redfishy · 01-26-2008, 05:27 AM

I really liked my Wintec saddles and I really like my Collegiate. They each have their advantages and disadvantages. When I got my latest saddle I really wanted the changable gullets again (as that's what I had in my wintec) but I wanted a leather saddle and couldn't afford the Bates. That's why I went with the Collegiate, but mine does have the changeable gullet system not a standard tree...they make both.

If she does go with the Wintec, I agree about not getting the CAIR. I hate it! Just like R'nB stated, adds spring and I'm not crazy about air flocked anything (saddle/pad) on my horse's back.

Dawn · 01-26-2008, 08:14 AM

Although I much prefer a nice wool flocked saddle to CAIR, I would never take a wintec with foam over a wintec with CAIR. If you think the CAIR's bad....just try one.

Rhythm 'n Blues · 01-26-2008, 10:53 AM

^^ Dawn are you saying that you find foam more bouncey then Cair??

I have ridden in all 3, and can tell you that I couldn't even tell the difference in the ride with the wool and the foam, but the cair...wowsers...bouncey city!

Wool is better over foam, there's no doubt, as foam isn't adjustable and wool is......maybe that is what you meant?

Dawn · 01-26-2008, 02:03 PM

I've ridden in other saddle brands with foam, no problem (granted not as nice as wool, but oh well). But the Wintec foam is just horrible imo. Maybe it's just me and my horses, I don't know. I've only used that particular saddle on two horses (well take that back, three), and had the issue on each one.

It's just very stiff, if that makes sense. It does not allow the saddle to sink on/around the horse's back. Maybe it's a combo of the foam with the synthetic material? I don't know.

But the CAIR I don't have that issue with. It looks very bad when not mounted, so can make for hard saddle fit issues as you can't tell how it truely fits without sitting in it.

I've actually not had a big 'bounce' issue with the CAIR. Now Reno, there seems to be a bit of bounce no matter what saddle I use on her (except my two stubbens). But Rusty, once you're mounted, it sits right down on him and doesn't budge. My wintec fits him like a glove though, so maybe that's part of it?

magic_rider · 01-26-2008, 02:26 PM

Apparently people have had problems with the panels in CAIR saddles not being evenly inflated. Wintec advertise that the cair panels make the saddle fit the horse, this is not true, the contents of the saddle do not change the way the saddle fits.

Dawn · 01-26-2008, 02:35 PM

The CAIR distributes pressure more evenly. The same concept as many of the higher quality saddle pads out now. Just contained within the saddle. It does not make the saddle fit any and every horse. The tree itself must still fit.

Remember that CAIR isn't actually 'air bags' as many people envision them. So being 'inflated' (evenly or not evenly) isn't an issue at all. Now uneven flocking might be an issue, but can be with any saddle.

01-26-2008, 04:19 AM	#13
Rhythm 'n Blues Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,877 Images: 76	Well the Cair isn't really adjustable. I mean it can be adjusted, but the adjustments have to be done by playing with the wool that is between the cair panels and the tree of the saddle. I have a Bates with Cair, and I can tell you, the Cair rides ALOT differently then wool, or een foam for that matter. It has this extra "bounce" to it, and I can assure you I hate that "extra" bounce when I'm already riding a very large strided horse! I have found that adding a real sheepkin under my saddle has really helped, but again, that's another expence. Another thing to think of when you're thinking of cair and flair saddles is that the pannels are filled with air, and air pressure changes with the temperature. So really from the time you take that saddle off the saddle rack to the time you put it back on the rack the temperature is constantly changing (horses's back is getting warmer, then sweating, then cooling down, etc) so really the air pressure in those saddles is never going to be 100% the same for any given moment. I didn't buy the saddle I ride in, it came with my lease horse (a friends). I like that this horse came with his own tack, but at the same time I will NEVER buy a saddle with any type of air pannels! __________________ Pay equal (if not more) attention to your own self carriage as that of your horse

01-26-2008, 10:53 AM	#17
Rhythm 'n Blues Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,877 Images: 76	^^ Dawn are you saying that you find foam more bouncey then Cair?? I have ridden in all 3, and can tell you that I couldn't even tell the difference in the ride with the wool and the foam, but the cair...wowsers...bouncey city! Wool is better over foam, there's no doubt, as foam isn't adjustable and wool is......maybe that is what you meant? __________________ Pay equal (if not more) attention to your own self carriage as that of your horse

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01-25-2008, 10:18 PM	#11
magic_rider Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,182 Images: 47	It might be worth thinking about weather you really want CAIR, it costs more and there is speculation over weather it is actually any better.

01-26-2008, 05:19 AM	#14
Andalucian Full Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 171	Just thought I'd echo the CAIR sentiments here. I've ridden in a few friends' and clients' saddles with the CAIR system, and personally I don't like it. To be fair, I've been struggling with a couple of herniated discs for a few years now, so any additional "bounce" is somewhat excruciating. That issue aside, I just didn't like the ride. I've also had a couple of horses that don't like CAIR. A lot. They get tense and short-strided, and I've known a few to even buck. I had a client who brought in her mare complaining the horse was quick, choppy, nervous, and hollow in the back. All of these problems disappeared as soon as I swapped her Wintec Isabel for one of my (wool flocked) dressage saddles. That said, I've known a lot of people and horses to absolutely love the CAIR system. I doubt Wintecs would be as popular as they are now if it wasn't at least passable for most horses and riders, given that most of the newer Wintecs out there do have CAIR. I wouldn't write it off for everyone. I just wouldn't really recommend buying a saddle with it until the horse/rider pair has tried it out. Just my thoughts.

01-26-2008, 05:27 AM	#15
Redfishy Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: south Georgia Posts: 968 Images: 62	I really liked my Wintec saddles and I really like my Collegiate. They each have their advantages and disadvantages. When I got my latest saddle I really wanted the changable gullets again (as that's what I had in my wintec) but I wanted a leather saddle and couldn't afford the Bates. That's why I went with the Collegiate, but mine does have the changeable gullet system not a standard tree...they make both. If she does go with the Wintec, I agree about not getting the CAIR. I hate it! Just like R'nB stated, adds spring and I'm not crazy about air flocked anything (saddle/pad) on my horse's back.

01-26-2008, 08:14 AM	#16
Dawn Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 31,292 Images: 1386	Although I much prefer a nice wool flocked saddle to CAIR, I would never take a wintec with foam over a wintec with CAIR. If you think the CAIR's bad....just try one.

01-26-2008, 02:03 PM	#18
Dawn Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 31,292 Images: 1386	I've ridden in other saddle brands with foam, no problem (granted not as nice as wool, but oh well). But the Wintec foam is just horrible imo. Maybe it's just me and my horses, I don't know. I've only used that particular saddle on two horses (well take that back, three), and had the issue on each one. It's just very stiff, if that makes sense. It does not allow the saddle to sink on/around the horse's back. Maybe it's a combo of the foam with the synthetic material? I don't know. But the CAIR I don't have that issue with. It looks very bad when not mounted, so can make for hard saddle fit issues as you can't tell how it truely fits without sitting in it. I've actually not had a big 'bounce' issue with the CAIR. Now Reno, there seems to be a bit of bounce no matter what saddle I use on her (except my two stubbens). But Rusty, once you're mounted, it sits right down on him and doesn't budge. My wintec fits him like a glove though, so maybe that's part of it?

01-26-2008, 02:26 PM	#19
magic_rider Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,182 Images: 47	Apparently people have had problems with the panels in CAIR saddles not being evenly inflated. Wintec advertise that the cair panels make the saddle fit the horse, this is not true, the contents of the saddle do not change the way the saddle fits.

01-26-2008, 02:35 PM	#20
Dawn Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 31,292 Images: 1386	The CAIR distributes pressure more evenly. The same concept as many of the higher quality saddle pads out now. Just contained within the saddle. It does not make the saddle fit any and every horse. The tree itself must still fit. Remember that CAIR isn't actually 'air bags' as many people envision them. So being 'inflated' (evenly or not evenly) isn't an issue at all. Now uneven flocking might be an issue, but can be with any saddle.