Color question

shell · 01-02-2007, 11:25 AM

This is a chocolate palomino (tested diluted) ASB stallion. Is there an underlying color in him? He has a gray/silver mane. What would he throw on a homozygous black mare? I know black or buckskin, but would it be an odd colored buckskin?

JBandRio · 01-02-2007, 11:48 AM

Wow, he's certainly stunning to look at!

I'd guess there is a flaxen component there, giving him the "white" tail.

Is the homozygous black mare black, or bay? This stallion can still be carrying a bay modifier (Agouti), so bay is still in the list of possibilities. If he was DNA tested, that will show as AA or Aa or aa. If the mare is black (meaning she is aa), and the stallion is aa, then you're right about black being a possibility, but buckskin wouldn't be. This scenario would give you a black horse for sure, with a 50/50 chance that he's a smokey black (black + dilute).

But if either of them are Aa, then you have a chance at a bay, and if either are AA, then you WILL get a bay, and then on top of that a 50/50 chance of buckskin.

What you know you will not get is a chestnut or a palomino, since the mare is homozygous black.

Little Red Dun · 01-02-2007, 03:22 PM

He looks like a really sooty palomino to me. Here is a page with several of them: The Silver Dapple Morgans Project They are Morgans, but you can see how close the color is to him. They originally thought they were Silver Dapple bays they were so dark.

I used this: Color Calculator and assumed the stallion's Agouti status was not known and that he did not carry Silver Dapple. I put the mare as Homozygous Black of course.

The outcome was:
25% - Smoky Black
25% - Buckskin
25% - Black
25% - Bay

Now if he was Homozygous for Agouti, you would definitely get either a Bay or Buckskin. If he did not carry Agouti at all, you would only get a Black or a Smoky Black.

As for the sooty, which I think is giving him his "chocolate" shade, its really hard to tell. They haven't really done any research that I've heard of in it so I don't know how likely he is to pass it on.

Millieluvsu · 01-02-2007, 03:29 PM

i dont know anything about breeding but that is a beautiful boy you have there!

LilEquineLuva · 01-02-2007, 03:38 PM

The other components have already been adressed....so...all I have to add is:

The light in the mane and tail arent caused by genes or anything for flaxen...they contain white because he is genetically a palomino, and most palominos have white manes and tails, however the sootiness justs adds a lot of grayish-dark hairs.

As far as how dark or sooty he is...very sooty palominos can sire isabella (very light) palominos..and vice versa. You cannot count on the darkness being passed on, but its surely a possiblity. You could breed two very sooty shaded horses together and get a foal of a very light shade. Its hard to count on anything either way with the shade.

shell · 01-02-2007, 07:08 PM

The stallion owner said she would ask UC Davis for another copy of his color records because she lost it. So, we will see if he is an Agouti carrier or not. Thanks for the help!!

luvs2ride79 · 01-02-2007, 07:22 PM

Where is he standing? Does he have a web site? He is just LOVELY!

~Barbara

shell · 01-02-2007, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvs2ride79

Where is he standing? Does he have a web site? He is just LOVELY!

~Barbara

No web site, but he is in WA. He is 16.2hh and the owner might lease Cleo (Black Arab/Andalusian mare)for a foal and breed Velvet (Black pure bred Arab mare)for free. We will see. I am going to go look at him in April.

Kar · 01-02-2007, 08:40 PM

Shell, Im clueless with color.. He is beautiful.
Think he might be Lilly's daddy? LOL She cant pick a color..

shell · 01-02-2007, 08:58 PM

The Chairman Of The Board

The Chairman-Elect

Folly's Dancer
Sire: Junior Chief Executive Officer

Anacacho's King Of Hearts

Amber's Tiny Dancer

Geer's Forever Amber

Shoreacres Anacacho Genius/ Genius Bourbon King

Anacacho's King Of Hearts

Baby's Last
Dam: Isadora Amber

Belevedere's Golden Glory

Geer's Forever Amber

Jane Peavine
The pedigree thing didn't work right. I can't find any info on these horses anyway.

01-02-2007, 11:25 AM	#1
shell Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: The Great North West Posts: 8,841 Images: 306	Color question This is a chocolate palomino (tested diluted) ASB stallion. Is there an underlying color in him? He has a gray/silver mane. What would he throw on a homozygous black mare? I know black or buckskin, but would it be an odd colored buckskin? __________________ “Look, what a horse should have he did not lack, save a proud rider on so proud back.” -Shakespear Marshalltown, Iowa, it is against the law for a horse to eat a fire hydrant.

01-02-2007, 11:48 AM	#2
JBandRio Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NC Posts: 21,613 Images: 132 Blog Entries: 12	Wow, he's certainly stunning to look at! I'd guess there is a flaxen component there, giving him the "white" tail. Is the homozygous black mare black, or bay? This stallion can still be carrying a bay modifier (Agouti), so bay is still in the list of possibilities. If he was DNA tested, that will show as AA or Aa or aa. If the mare is black (meaning she is aa), and the stallion is aa, then you're right about black being a possibility, but buckskin wouldn't be. This scenario would give you a black horse for sure, with a 50/50 chance that he's a smokey black (black + dilute). But if either of them are Aa, then you have a chance at a bay, and if either are AA, then you WILL get a bay, and then on top of that a 50/50 chance of buckskin. What you know you will not get is a chestnut or a palomino, since the mare is homozygous black. __________________ - JB Acres, owned and operated by Dynamite animals. - It's a wonder horses as a whole don't just kill us all and be done with their misery. - Keep your voice soothing and low - even when things get western (buck1173) - Rio feels good - he bounced an in-and-out

01-02-2007, 03:22 PM	#3
Little Red Dun Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: the Sunshine State, USA Posts: 1,406 Images: 10 Blog Entries: 2	He looks like a really sooty palomino to me. Here is a page with several of them: The Silver Dapple Morgans Project They are Morgans, but you can see how close the color is to him. They originally thought they were Silver Dapple bays they were so dark. I used this: Color Calculator and assumed the stallion's Agouti status was not known and that he did not carry Silver Dapple. I put the mare as Homozygous Black of course. The outcome was: 25% - Smoky Black 25% - Buckskin 25% - Black 25% - Bay Now if he was Homozygous for Agouti, you would definitely get either a Bay or Buckskin. If he did not carry Agouti at all, you would only get a Black or a Smoky Black. As for the sooty, which I think is giving him his "chocolate" shade, its really hard to tell. They haven't really done any research that I've heard of in it so I don't know how likely he is to pass it on. __________________ Amanda VP of the Player Fan Club ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them. ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.

01-02-2007, 03:29 PM	#4
Millieluvsu Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: South Carolina Posts: 708 Images: 25 Blog Entries: 5	i dont know anything about breeding but that is a beautiful boy you have there! __________________ trucks = big girl toy.

01-02-2007, 03:38 PM	#5
LilEquineLuva Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: KY, USA Posts: 617 Images: 55	The other components have already been adressed....so...all I have to add is: The light in the mane and tail arent caused by genes or anything for flaxen...they contain white because he is genetically a palomino, and most palominos have white manes and tails, however the sootiness justs adds a lot of grayish-dark hairs. As far as how dark or sooty he is...very sooty palominos can sire isabella (very light) palominos..and vice versa. You cannot count on the darkness being passed on, but its surely a possiblity. You could breed two very sooty shaded horses together and get a foal of a very light shade. Its hard to count on anything either way with the shade. __________________ Olivia - Painted Ridge Farms Quality APHA and AQHA horses www.paintedridgefarms.com

01-02-2007, 07:08 PM	#6
shell Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: The Great North West Posts: 8,841 Images: 306	The stallion owner said she would ask UC Davis for another copy of his color records because she lost it. So, we will see if he is an Agouti carrier or not. Thanks for the help!! __________________ “Look, what a horse should have he did not lack, save a proud rider on so proud back.” -Shakespear Marshalltown, Iowa, it is against the law for a horse to eat a fire hydrant.

01-02-2007, 07:22 PM	#7
luvs2ride79 Senior Member+ Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 3,887 Images: 26	Where is he standing? Does he have a web site? He is just LOVELY! ~Barbara __________________ "To be an equestrian in the classical sense is not just to be a rider. It is a position in life." --Charles de Kunffy EquineFriends.com**2HotToTrot.com Anti-Slaughter and PROUD! StopHorseSlaughter.com

01-02-2007, 08:40 PM	#9
Kar Senior Member+ Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,075 Images: 418	Shell, Im clueless with color.. He is beautiful. Think he might be Lilly's daddy? LOL She cant pick a color.. __________________ www.horsehope.com The Lord invented alcohol to prevent the Irish from taking over the world. "This is one race of people for whom psychoanalysis is of no use whatsoever" -Sigmund Freud (speaking about the Irish)

01-02-2007, 08:58 PM	#10
shell Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: The Great North West Posts: 8,841 Images: 306	The Chairman Of The Board The Chairman-Elect Folly's Dancer Sire: Junior Chief Executive Officer Anacacho's King Of Hearts Amber's Tiny Dancer Geer's Forever Amber Shoreacres Anacacho Genius/ Genius Bourbon King Anacacho's King Of Hearts Baby's Last Dam: Isadora Amber Belevedere's Golden Glory Geer's Forever Amber Jane Peavine The pedigree thing didn't work right. I can't find any info on these horses anyway. __________________ “Look, what a horse should have he did not lack, save a proud rider on so proud back.” -Shakespear Marshalltown, Iowa, it is against the law for a horse to eat a fire hydrant.

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