[Comanche65]

Hello everybody,

recently i have wanted to breed my stud to a mare just to see what he will throw. I know he is out of some good breeding so i thought it was worth a try.

i am wanting to get a Chocolate with a white mane and tail out of him.

He is a Red Chocolate with a Flax/ mane and tail. I am wanting to know what i will have to breed him to in order to get my chocolate.

So far i have heard a Cremello would probibly work. So what all do you guys think??

thanks- Amber

[prettyqtrs]

First: There are no garuntees for colors, shades of colors, and markings when breeding. I see from your other threads that he is a Kentucky Mountain Horse...I don't know much about them, their colors, etc. But, from look at your picture of Comanche---I would call him sorrel. What color is on his reg. papers?

Second: Though I strongly disagree with breeding just to see what he will throw. Unless he is of top/high quality in his breed/discipline/etc, has proven himself under saddle *preferably shown or at least given a chance in the show ring*, has excellent conformation, a good mind, and the list goes on. I really don't think he should be used for breeding...especially with the intention to just see what he's going to throw and you are aiming for color alone.
Just curious if you have ever owned a stallion before? Are you wanting to do anything with Comanche prior to breeding him? Do you have any plans for the foal?

You could try looking on classified websites (equine, dreamhorse, agdirect, etc) to see if you can find a horse, with the characteristics/color/age/etc that you are loking for.
Best wishes!

[paintedequine]

Originally Posted by prettyqtrs

First: There are no garuntees for colors, shades of colors, and markings when breeding. I see from your other threads that he is a Kentucky Mountain Horse...I don't know much about them, their colors, etc. But, from look at your picture of Comanche---I would call him sorrel. What color is on his reg. papers?

Second: Though I strongly disagree with breeding just to see what he will throw. Unless he is of top/high quality in his breed/discipline/etc, has proven himself under saddle *preferably shown or at least given a chance in the show ring*, has excellent conformation, a good mind, and the list goes on. I really don't think he should be used for breeding...especially with the intention to just see what he's going to throw and you are aiming for color alone.
Just curious if you have ever owned a stallion before? Are you wanting to do anything with Comanche prior to breeding him? Do you have any plans for the foal?

You could try looking on classified websites (equine, dreamhorse, agdirect, etc) to see if you can find a horse, with the characteristics/color/age/etc that you are loking for.
Best wishes!

Agreed all around!

[3WishesDun]

Rocky Mountain horse enthusiasts often call horses that are genetically black with the silver gene..... Chocolate.

They also call horses that are bay with the silver gene..... Red Chocolates.
But these horses are genetically not red. They are black based with agouti (bay) and silver genes. Silver has NO effect on a red/red based horse (chestnut, palomino, cremello)

If you horse is truly a Bay Silver (Red chocolate) then you would have to breed to a Black Silver to try and get another Black Silver.

The creme dilutions (palomino, buckskin, perlino, cremello, smokey black, smokey creme....etc) have nothing to do with the silver color that RMH enthusiasts covet. It is the SILVER gene.

Do you know if your horse is homozygous for black? Or homozygous for agouti (the bay gene)? Or homozygous for silver?

If you bred your horse to a homozygous black homozygous silver mare
and your horse has only one copy of the agouti gene (heterozygous) and without knowing if he is homozygous or heterozygous for black you would get 50% Black Silver (what you call chocolate) and 50 % Bay Silver (what you call red chocolate).

If you bred your horse to a homozygous black homozygous silver mare and your horse has 2 copies of the agouti gene (homozygous) you will always get 100% Bay Silver (red chocolate).


But the bottom line is that the creme gene has nothing to do with the colors that RMH breeders strive for..... it is the Silver gene.


The percentages for Black or Bay Silver will go up or down depending on the homozygousity/heterozygousity of both horses Silver, Black, and Bay genes.

And I also agree with what Pretty Quarters posted above.

[Comanche65]

On his papers he is registered a Red Chocolate.
Also he is out of top breeding that around my area brings in top dollar, he is being rode but, not in shows..ect..he is an all around good horse. I have owned stallions before, yes. Whatever he does throw i was thinking of doing some showing and what not. He has a great temperment and i would love to see more horses that act like him. thanks though.

[Haas Horse Farm]

Cremello would definitely be the wrong choice as the silver gene does not show on red gened horses. LOL Find a HZ for black, HZ for silver, heterozgous for agouti or no agouti on the one since we know your stallion has at least one... which if he is HZ for agouti your only chance is red chocolate not chocolate.